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  • FIRST POST
    • Gilespfr
    • By Gilespfr 10th Jan 18, 5:12 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Gilespfr
    Appeal against POPLA Decision - what next?
    • #1
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:12 PM
    Appeal against POPLA Decision - what next? 10th Jan 18 at 5:12 PM
    This is an excellent forum - I have felt very supported by having this community to refer to!

    In fact this is my first post to it about a Parking Charge I received from UKPC in November. I was parked outside the marked lines (with a pay and display ticket) - but in a bay on its own well away from all the others. I appealed to POPLA after PCUK rejected my first appeal; the entry to the bay was slightly obscured by scaffolding but I shot myself in the foot, as I said many elderly folk use this car park, so thought I would use this bay. I lost the second appeal on grounds that their terms of business state that you have to park in the marked bay (if this is not possible, then should park in another bay!). It's such a crazy fine and the fact that it is 100, more than my earning for that visit to teach at University, it has made me want to dig my heals in!

    It would seem that PCUK are registered on BPA's website. So as a legitimate private contractor, it would seem I have no choice but to pay the full amount.

    Two questions; is this worth pursuing further and secondly, if I do pay, can I pay the orginal pre appeal amount of 60?

    Thanks so much

    Gilespfr
    Last edited by Gilespfr; 10-01-2018 at 5:13 PM. Reason: Correct typos
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Jan 18, 5:17 PM
    • 7,658 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:17 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:17 PM
    ...it would seem I have no choice but to pay the full amount.
    Originally posted by Gilespfr
    Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

    A PoPLA decision is not binding on the motorist.
    Last edited by KeithP; 10-01-2018 at 9:52 PM.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    • 9,455 Posts
    • 9,200 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    So as a legitimate private contractor, it would seem I have no choice but to pay the full amount.

    Of course you have, it is a scam, why pay them a penny.

    If they were to take this to court, (and they can), they may well struggle to convince a judge that your minor breach, (perhaps de minimus) of their contract, has as so damaged them that they deserve a sum of more than a University lecturer earns for a session.

    Ignore debt collects letters', threats, etc., and only come back if they issue a court claim.
    Last edited by The Deep; 10-01-2018 at 5:58 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 10th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • 4,152 Posts
    • 5,888 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    Paying them would be a stupid thing to do.

    First of all, what was in your POP LA appeal/challenge, and did you use the information in the newbies thread before you sent the appeal/challenge off?

    Secondly who's car park was this ?

    Thirdly what was in your POPL appeal, what did the assessor say, and what was the assessors name?
    All the above will help if you want assistance.

    So....
    Vehicle was parked in (location)
    POPLA appeal/challenge said ( your appeal/challenge)
    POPLA assessor said ( in the rejection)


    You are not bound by whatever POPLA say
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • 18,309 Posts
    • 23,192 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    It would seem that PCUK are registered on BPA's website. So as a legitimate private contractor, it would seem I have no choice but to pay the full amount.

    Two questions; is this worth pursuing further and secondly, if I do pay, can I pay the orginal pre appeal amount of 60?

    Thanks so much

    Gilespfr
    Originally posted by Gilespfr
    you do not have to pay one penny unless a judge says so , in the small claims court (your local court) - until then you are under no obligation to do anything at all

    POPLA is not binding on the motorist

    the PPC has 6 years to issue a court claim using MCOL

    not worth pursuing further UNLESS you receive a formal LBC or an MCOL in the post (within 6 years)

    no , you can only pay whatever the amount due actually is , which is typically 100 but could be less , depending on what the NTK and the signage say

    the reduced payment was only offered for early settlement , which is called a bribe
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 18, 11:24 PM
    • 58,342 Posts
    • 71,857 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:24 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:24 PM
    Search the forum for 'LOST POPLA' and after reading the results, show me how many posters here actually PAID after the insignificant matter of losing at POPLA?

    None that I can recall.

    It would seem that PCUK are registered on BPA's website. So as a legitimate private contractor, it would seem I have no choice but to pay the full amount.
    You mean UKPC? And the word 'legitimate' almost in the same sentence?!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=63597

    And that's why you want to shell out a 3 figure sum to? Think again, and read other POPLA lost threads.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Gilespfr
    • By Gilespfr 16th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Gilespfr
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    Further details re POLA rejection
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    Thanks so much for your time on this - it is very much appreciated, it is the Robin Hood of forums!
    You asked me the following questions;

    1. Vehicle was parked in (location)
    It was parked in a Salvation Army car park in High Wycombe - 'The Riverside' HP11 2HE, which UKPC seem to own / manage (poorly!)

    2. POPLA appeal/challenge said ( your appeal/challenge)
    There was considerable obstruction on the left hand side in front of the bay I reversed into and parked with the correct Pay and Display ticket used, making it impossible to park straight and still be able to get out again, by way of the scaffolding obstruction and other vehicles, making it difficult to get into this space in the first place. This bay is not really fit for purpose to demonstrate this point further, my vehicle was blocked in the bay when I returned for an extra 45 minutes, due to the obstruction on the left and a van parked within the bay (without a parking charge ticket being issued).

    However, it was my mistake (should have read the forum first!) for saying there were other bays available, but I thought it would be good to use this one, as I know elderly people are regular users of this particular car park and would struggle with this bay, with the above-mentioned obstruction.

    3. POPLA assessor said ( in the rejection)
    They say it was correctly issued as my vehicle was outside the bay and have decided to reject my appeal i.e basis of 'considerable obstruction', they state there was enough room for me to park within the bay. Also they state the T&C were near enough to my car. Also they say by my own admission there were other bays available. They suggest that if the bay is not fit for purpose I should speak to the property management. Although this point is not relevant now as the scaffolding has been taken down!


    4. You are not bound by whatever POPLA say
    I would be keen to know my rights!

    Thanks so much.

    Giles
    • Gilespfr
    • By Gilespfr 16th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Gilespfr
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    Rights with POLA
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    Thanks Keith
    I just want to know my rights here!

    Giles
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    • 7,658 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    I would be keen to know my rights!
    Originally posted by Gilespfr
    You have the right to do nothing.

    Sit and wait for up to six years to see if they decide to start court action.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jan 18, 10:12 PM
    • 58,342 Posts
    • 71,857 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are not bound by whatever POPLA say
    I would be keen to know my rights!
    Well basically you are simply in the position everyone here used to be in before POPLA started making decisions around Christmas 2012. We all CHEERFULLY ignored fake PCNs from chancers like this, and now is no different if you've exhausted your chance to quash it at POPLA.

    Nothing else has changed. Not a single regular poster here would pay this, nor would we tell a friend to pay!

    Come back if UKPC try a small claim, which they might/might not; but we do win 99% (honestly) of fully-coached defended small claims on this forum where people stick around throughout. No risk of a CCJ as long as you don't ignore court directions/dates (even if you lost, no CCJ, no big deal).

    Take a few more pictures if you can, just in case, and make a complaint to the local Trading Standards officer about his cash-cow 'space' that's impossible to park straight in.

    And perhaps you might consider, while your anger is still simmering, writing to your MP to tell them about this intimidation.

    This is a copy of a post by Bargepole:
    "Some action at last:

    http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

    This Private Member's Bill has Government and cross-party support, and stands a good chance of making it into statute.

    The full text of the clauses will be published nearer the date of the second reading, but my sources tell me it's something we should support.

    Now would be a good time to write to your MP urging them to support it."

    and to Which?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5765579

    and to your local Trading Standards...very important! (not Citizens Advice or a fob off Consumer 'helpline').
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-01-2018 at 10:16 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jakubjohn
    • By jakubjohn 16th Jan 18, 10:31 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jakubjohn
    Parking Solutions 24 Parking Charge
    Hi,

    Please help, I'm not sure what else I can do!

    Two and a half months ago I received a parking charge - that is it was apparently placed behind my wiper. Over a month later I received in the post information that I had received the parking charge for not paying the parking fee.

    When I visited the car park in the first place there were no notice boards informing about any parking T&C. I spoke to anybody I met and nobody knew anything about any parking fees. Obviously I took no evidence of anything - I didn't suspect I had been fined!

    When I received the letter informing about the fine, I appealed to PS24 and explained. Negative. Then I visited the car park again - just to check and... saw brand new notice boards. I explained this in my appeal to POPLA. PS24 produced an photo of my car with the new notice board - but suspiciously blurry. I do remember, when I visited the car park the first time, having to ask for information and even the way out - there were no signs whatsoever. Even the road marking are now changed!

    Does anybody have any idea what I can do now? Is there any way of proving what really happened on the day of my first visit? I am so upset about their cheek that I am prepared to go to small claims court. Is it wise, you think?

    Thank you for any advice.

    J.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Jan 18, 10:37 PM
    • 7,658 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    KeithP
    Please help, I'm not sure what else I can do!
    Originally posted by jakubjohn
    Well here's what else you can do.

    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which offers all the advice you are likely to need.

    If you then still have questions, then please start a new thread.
    Trying to progress the issues of two people on one thread will only lead to confusion.

    Please... no replies on this thread. Start a new thread if you have anything further you want to say.
    Last edited by KeithP; 16-01-2018 at 10:53 PM. Reason: spelling
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Jan 18, 10:45 PM
    • 17,980 Posts
    • 28,462 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Does anybody have any idea what I can do now?
    Yes, read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 which will tell you about the game you are now involved in.

    I am so upset about their cheek that I am prepared to go to small claims court.
    Do you mean you will be taking them to the small claims court? Your case will be......?

    If by !!!8216;PS24!!!8217; you mean Parking Solutions 24 will be taking you to the SCC, you!!!8217;ll be going nowhere near a court.

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Parking_Solutions_24.html

    If the parking event was over two and a half months ago, it!!!8217;s now beyond the initial appeal/POPLA stage, so just ignore this and see what PS24!!!8217;s next step is.

    Do not post any more on this thread, as it doesn!!!8217;t belong to you, please, if necessary in the future, start a new thread of your own. Regulars won!!!8217;t respond (civilly ) to a thread hijacker - please see forum rules, one case one thread.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 16-01-2018 at 10:48 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Gilespfr
    • By Gilespfr 22nd Jan 18, 9:34 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Gilespfr
    Simmering -letter to MP and Trading Standards a good idea
    Thanks for advice, I have written to my local MP as you suggested and the CEO of my District Council, hopefully this will add weight to the argument that these scam private contractors need to change and be better regulated.

    Kind regards

    Giles
    • Gilespfr
    • By Gilespfr 22nd Jan 18, 10:21 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Gilespfr
    Sit and wait
    Thanks Keith
    I am keen to stand up for my rights, but I do worry that they may send bailiffs who may try and force there way in, when I am not around, which I have seen on TV documentaries with people not paying PCNs!

    Is that a true scenario for UKPC..?

    Cheers

    Giles
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 22nd Jan 18, 10:39 PM
    • 7,658 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thanks Keith
    I am keen to stand up for my rights, but I do worry that they may send bailiffs who may try and force there way in, when I am not around, which I have seen on TV documentaries with people not paying PCNs!

    Is that a true scenario for UKPC..?

    Cheers

    Giles
    Originally posted by Gilespfr
    That is not a likely scenario.

    Debt collectors are harmless.

    You have absolutely no risk of anyone visiting your premises, let alone forcing their way in.
    Before that happens a court case has to have taken place.
    You then have to lose that case.
    Having lost, you then have to not pay whatever the judge orders before any bailiff can be instructed to recover anything.

    You've been watching too much daytime television.

    You clearly have not yet read post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread where how to deal with debt collectors is discussed.
    Last edited by KeithP; 22-01-2018 at 10:41 PM.
    .
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Jan 18, 8:23 AM
    • 2,714 Posts
    • 3,369 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Also unless it is over 600 there is no high court involvement, meaning no powers of entry
    In any case HC bailiffs cannot force entry to private property
    and, as noted, to GET to that stage you would have to have lost at court AND not paid up within a month

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do some research on here first, before posting, as you will almost certainly find your question alerady answered many, many times.
    • Edelman
    • By Edelman 16th May 18, 11:50 AM
    • 221 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Edelman
    POPLA rejected Decision
    Hi there. I am in the same position.
    I parked in an NCP car park, reversing into space, walked up the path on which I had reversed, to the machine and paid.

    Turns out, that machine is NOT for NCP. It was below freezing, and it seemed logical to pay the machine on the path.

    POPLA has rejected our appeal and state by letter that no further communication will take place. Very stern and boisterous manner.

    I have written to my MP.

    What happens next? Will I get some formal legal document, or do you think my MP can help, and get something looked into in this car park as a case so others dont fall into this less-than-obvious trap?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • 17,980 Posts
    • 28,462 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What happens next? Will I get some formal legal document, or do you think my MP can help, and get something looked into in this car park as a case so others dont fall into this less-than-obvious trap?
    Legal docs - very unlikely from NCP. Possibly harmless debt collector letters - read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #4 for how to deal with debt collectors.

    MP - depends how well you've put your case to him/her. Depends how keen he/she is for your vote. See what kind of response you get.

    You won't need any further advice from the forum unless you receive (vanishingly unlikely) court papers. If you do, please start a new thread of your own.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Edelman
    • By Edelman 16th May 18, 12:23 PM
    • 221 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Edelman
    Where is the newbies FAQ on this?
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