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  • FIRST POST
    • skayes
    • By skayes 9th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 8Thanks
    skayes
    Amazon refusing a refund over 'no signature'
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    Amazon refusing a refund over 'no signature' 9th Jan 18 at 10:04 PM
    Hi,
    I need some help with a refund at Amazon UK. I bought an expensive book (£120) a couple of months ago and it arrived damaged from poor packaging. To cut the story short, I sent it back after informing Amazon of the issue. Since it was a marketplace item and from an overseas seller they never sent a returns label and I had to send it back using Royal Mail's International Signed and Tracked service, which cost me more than £20. After waiting some time, during which I never heard from the seller nor received a refund, I decided not to say anything to them and went straight to Amazon to file an A-Z claim.

    They asked me for proof of signed delivery. I used the tracking number to get to Royal Mail's confirmation of delivery page, and sent them a copy (and also sent a copy of the certificate of posting), but since that page shows no signature, Amazon have denied the refund.

    I'm very angry, because I did everything to the letter and just because they see no signature I'm £140 out of pocket through no fault of my own. Any suggestions on what I should do, if anyone has had a similar problem?
    Last edited by skayes; 09-01-2018 at 10:37 PM.
Page 1
    • pramsay13
    • By pramsay13 9th Jan 18, 10:36 PM
    • 388 Posts
    • 843 Thanks
    pramsay13
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:36 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:36 PM
    Why is there no signature?
    Ask Royal Mail for the signature proof.
    • skayes
    • By skayes 9th Jan 18, 10:41 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:41 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:41 PM
    Thanks for your reply. As it happens, I've just started looking into this after posting my question. It turns out that RM never show a signature for an International Signed/Tracked service item because after leaving the UK the item is handed over to local postal services at the destination country. That suggests that a signature may exist but it's not recorded by RM. So I'm wondering now whether to see if RM can get me a copy of the signature, or if I can find the local postal service and ask them directly. Also, I have to get this done in good time (thankfully I have until April to appeal the decision).

    Has anyone else been in this situation? I would appreciate any insights.
    • dj1471
    • By dj1471 9th Jan 18, 11:01 PM
    • 1,222 Posts
    • 823 Thanks
    dj1471
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:01 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:01 PM
    Have you tried tracking the item with the postal service that delivered it? That may yield the full proof of delivery.
    • skayes
    • By skayes 9th Jan 18, 11:13 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:13 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:13 PM
    Yes I have just done that - thanks for the suggestion. The delivery confirmation is there but still no signature. There is however a complaints (not contact! ) page with a form for 'post acknowledgement not received'. So I've filled in the form and requested a copy of the signature. Hopefully this will get me what I need. I'll post an update here when I hear back.
    • skayes
    • By skayes 10th Jan 18, 3:23 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:23 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:23 PM
    Hi again,

    Well, here's the first update: RM's FAQ on 'who signed for my item' mentions that:

    "International Signed For® items are signed for on delivery abroad, but we are unable to confirm the delivery or the identity of the person who signed for the item."

    For another international sign-for service (business), page mentions:

    "Your item is tracked until it leaves the UK and only handed over at its final destination once we have a signature from the recipient. "

    But the small print (footnote at bottom of the long page) says:

    "However, we do not provide a copy of the signature as part of the service."

    Now that feels like a gyp, because I paid for a tracked and signed service. So this means, never use International Signed-For if you want a signature confirmation, whether it's personal or for business.

    I'm still hoping that the local post office at the destination country will help. Let's see.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    • 12,198 Posts
    • 8,247 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    If your A-Z appeal has failed then contact your card company and see if they will assist.
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 10th Jan 18, 4:44 PM
    • 3,031 Posts
    • 1,957 Thanks
    TrickyDicky101
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 4:44 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 4:44 PM
    If your A-Z appeal has failed then contact your card company and see if they will assist.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Help with what? I can't see the card company being interested.
    • victor2
    • By victor2 10th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • 4,758 Posts
    • 3,177 Thanks
    victor2
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    Help with what? I can't see the card company being interested.
    Originally posted by TrickyDicky101
    https://www.moneysupermarket.com/credit-cards/guide-to-credit-card-protection/
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 10th Jan 18, 5:48 PM
    • 3,031 Posts
    • 1,957 Thanks
    TrickyDicky101
    In my opinion that is unlikely to help. A chargeback will ultimately result in OP being pursued for unpaid debt. S75 does not apply as far as I can see.
    Last edited by TrickyDicky101; 10-01-2018 at 5:54 PM.
    • RichardD1970
    • By RichardD1970 10th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 4,342 Thanks
    RichardD1970
    Hi,
    I need some help with a refund at Amazon UK. I bought an expensive book (£120) a couple of months ago and it arrived damaged from poor packaging. To cut the story short, I sent it back after informing Amazon of the issue. Since it was a marketplace item and from an overseas seller they never sent a returns label and I had to send it back using Royal Mail's International Signed and Tracked service, which cost me more than £20. After waiting some time, during which I never heard from the seller nor received a refund, I decided not to say anything to them and went straight to Amazon to file an A-Z claim.

    They asked me for proof of signed delivery. I used the tracking number to get to Royal Mail's confirmation of delivery page, and sent them a copy (and also sent a copy of the certificate of posting), but since that page shows no signature, Amazon have denied the refund.

    I'm very angry, because I did everything to the letter and just because they see no signature I'm £140 out of pocket through no fault of my own. Any suggestions on what I should do, if anyone has had a similar problem?
    Originally posted by skayes
    Have you subsequently contacted the seller?
    • skayes
    • By skayes 10th Jan 18, 6:58 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    Have you subsequently contacted the seller?
    Not since the A-Z, no, because the details of the claim show Amazon contacted the seller about it and they evidently denied having received the book.

    TrickyDicky, theonlywayisup and victor2, I did think about a chargeback via my bank, though your comment about it being pursued as an unpaid debt is valid and makes me think twice about it. I've also considered claiming at RM for loss of the item (or at least misdelivery). I hear it takes a long time though (to appeal Amazon's decision I have only until April) and they may deny it on the basis that they think it's delivered. On the other hand if I state the case clearly enough, it might compel them to actually produce the all-important signature which their site claims is *always* taken before they hand the item over. And if they can't produce a signature I might be able to take it further. Maybe.
    Last edited by skayes; 10-01-2018 at 7:05 PM. Reason: typos
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Jan 18, 9:01 PM
    • 12,198 Posts
    • 8,247 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Help with what? I can't see the card company being interested.
    Originally posted by TrickyDicky101
    I had a failed return claim (I didn't open an A-Z as I wasn't aware of them at the time). The credit card company asked for my proof of postage to show a return (and reason for return) and subsequently refunded the payment.

    The OP won't know until they ask.
    • Lip_Stick
    • By Lip_Stick 10th Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    • 2,133 Posts
    • 5,827 Thanks
    Lip_Stick
    I was in a post office just before Christmas when two staff were discussing a small parcel one of them was holding. The woman mentioned it was from a school and going overseas. She then said how the school had paid for tracking, then said 'but once it leaves the UK it isn't tracked anymore'.
    There's a storm coming, Cameron. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Jan 18, 8:55 AM
    • 33,547 Posts
    • 28,506 Thanks
    custardy
    I was in a post office just before Christmas when two staff were discussing a small parcel one of them was holding. The woman mentioned it was from a school and going overseas. She then said how the school had paid for tracking, then said 'but once it leaves the UK it isn't tracked anymore'.
    Originally posted by Lip_Stick
    RM can only track items in the UK.
    Once the leave its down to the receiving postal service.
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 11th Jan 18, 9:16 AM
    • 3,031 Posts
    • 1,957 Thanks
    TrickyDicky101
    I had a failed return claim (I didn't open an A-Z as I wasn't aware of them at the time). The credit card company asked for my proof of postage to show a return (and reason for return) and subsequently refunded the payment.

    The OP won't know until they ask.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Fair enough - it *could* be a way to resolve (even if I don't think it clear the card co would have a legal duty to help).
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 11th Jan 18, 10:07 AM
    • 2,074 Posts
    • 1,229 Thanks
    SuperHan
    Was the item insured with Royal Mail?


    If the recipient is denying getting it, then RM haven't delivered the service you have paid for, and so should be on the hook for the value of the book.
    • skayes
    • By skayes 11th Jan 18, 10:25 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    RM can only track items in the UK.
    I was always under this impression too, though this time I was able to get the full tracking information for the book under International Signed-For. So I think things may have changed recently. The only thing missing is the image of the signature.

    If the recipient is denying getting it, then RM haven't delivered the service you have paid for, and so should be on the hook for the value of the book.
    That's what I'm thinking now too, though again I'm still awaiting the response from the foreign post office first. The way I see it, if I can get a signature, then Amazon will have to refund me. If I can't get a signature, then RM becomes liable.

    I had a failed return claim (I didn't open an A-Z as I wasn't aware of them at the time). The credit card company asked for my proof of postage to show a return (and reason for return) and subsequently refunded the payment.

    The OP won't know until they ask.
    I might be wrong but I think I can only chargeback for items less than £100, and my item was a bit over that amount. There's also a possibility of Amazon pursuing it as unpaid debt.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 11th Jan 18, 10:33 AM
    • 16,522 Posts
    • 41,704 Thanks
    elsien
    S75 chargeback is for items over £100 but you need to do it within specific timescales.
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Jan 18, 10:49 AM
    • 33,547 Posts
    • 28,506 Thanks
    custardy
    I was always under this impression too, though this time I was able to get the full tracking information for the book under International Signed-For. So I think things may have changed recently. The only thing missing is the image of the signature.



    That's what I'm thinking now too, though again I'm still awaiting the response from the foreign post office first. The way I see it, if I can get a signature, then Amazon will have to refund me. If I can't get a signature, then RM becomes liable.



    I might be wrong but I think I can only chargeback for items less than £100, and my item was a bit over that amount. There's also a possibility of Amazon pursuing it as unpaid debt.
    Originally posted by skayes
    RM have provided proof of delivery. I dont see you having much luck with a claim Im afraid.
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