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  • FIRST POST
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 8th Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    Smart parking - am I guaranteed to lose if it went to court
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    Smart parking - am I guaranteed to lose if it went to court 8th Jan 18 at 8:34 PM
    Hi everyone, Iíve never posted on this and only found out it existed last night and have been reading the stickies for hours but I canít see anything regarding my situation and I think Iíve really messed up.

    In late November i got a parking ticket from smart parking for being parked in a car park without paying. They are correct I didnít pay. It was gone 8pm, there was only one other car parked there and I stupidly presumed it was free after 6pm. I stayed there until 11pm.

    Iíve not been driving that long and never received a ticket before and Iím such a fool I thought you just ignore parking tickets not from the council so when I got the ticket from smart parking a few weeks after, i did nothing and I binned it. The charge was £60 and I was being made redundant that month too so I just saw a bill that I thought I could bin and not have to pay so I got rid of it. Then a month after that, I received a letter form drp(the usual threatening of court action and the fine became £160) and received another one today from drp.

    Now I know you ignore DRP and I will, however, should I go back to smart parking and see if I can pay them directly? Or do I wait for the court letter? I donít even have the ref code to write to smart parking as I binned that letter so would they find my case from the drp ref number? As itís been over 2 months, I doubt I can appeal this anyway? If it went to court, am I guaranteed to lose as 1: I never appealed to smart parking or even acknowledged this invoice with them (Iíve been ignoring) and 2: I did actually Park without paying. Although in another thread someone won an appeal being parked in the same car park I was in at a similar time due to the signage not being clear (as well as other reasons)

    Please advise. I will never presume anywhere is free to park and hopefully never get a ticket again and if I do I wonít ignore

    Best regards

    DollyPartoni
Page 1
    • waamo
    • By waamo 8th Jan 18, 8:53 PM
    • 3,384 Posts
    • 4,500 Thanks
    waamo
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 8:53 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 8:53 PM
    Read ALL of this thread. There are sections on debt collectors and the court process

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822
    This space for hire.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Jan 18, 9:41 PM
    • 2,748 Posts
    • 3,411 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:41 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:41 PM
    Also don!!!8217;t believe smart do court...
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 8th Jan 18, 9:42 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:42 PM
    Thank
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:42 PM
    Thanks for the link I have read it all. As Iíve not yet received a court notice, I am wanting to know if I should contact smart parking (even though I got the Ďinvoiceí over 2 months ago and regrettably never appealed this with them) or wait and see f I get a court order? I will be emailing the debt collection agency tomorrow as on the stickie. Thanks
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 8th Jan 18, 9:51 PM
    • 4,388 Posts
    • 4,416 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:51 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:51 PM
    If you've missed the appeal window then just ignore them and any debt collector letters, and only respond to a real letter before claim or court papers. This is all clearly explained in the NEWBIES thread, which does NOT say to email the debt collector - in fact it says the exact opposite! The only people you could be emailing are the landowners to get them to tell Smart to cancel the PCN.

    As Michael Winner used to say in the Esure adverts ... Calm down dear!
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jan 18, 9:55 PM
    • 17,982 Posts
    • 28,468 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:55 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 18, 9:55 PM
    Smart parking - am I guaranteed to lose if it went to court


    No one is ever !!!8216;guaranteed to lose if it went to court!!!8217;.

    If you lost to Smart it would mean that you would be the first one to lose at court to them, because you!!!8217;d be the very first one we!!!8217;ve ever seen them !!!8216;take to court!!!8217;.

    Sleep easy, the bogeyman doesn!!!8217;t exist.

    Have you complained to the landowner and assertively asked them to get this cancelled?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 8th Jan 18, 10:02 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:02 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:02 PM
    Thanks for your reply. On the stickie thread it says Ďif you have letters from any debt collector such as Debt Recovery Plus or Zenith and are on the face of it, too late to 'appeal', then (if in England/Wales) either ignore them or robustly respond. Ď so I was going to email them the template that was posted on the stickie thread? Do you suggest I just ignore them?
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 8th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    The car park is near the town centre near a dual carriageway so no idea who the landowner is
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • 17,982 Posts
    • 28,468 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    Do you suggest I just ignore them?
    Yes. Nothing you might send them (other than a cheque) will make a blind bit of difference.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jan 18, 10:08 PM
    • 17,982 Posts
    • 28,468 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The car park is near the town centre near a dual carriageway so no idea who the landowner is
    Originally posted by Dollypartoni
    Do some research. Local Authority Planning Department. Local Rating Office. Google. Land Registry will give it to you on a plate for 3 quid.

    You need to take control. You can!!!8217;t remain an island in the stream on this. It certainly isn!!!8217;t what we are!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 24th Mar 18, 2:17 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    Hello, I have received a letter from SCS Law regarding the above original post.

    The letter head is from SCS Law and the return address to return the reply form is SCS Law, Canary Wharf London but if you wish to pay it gives you the Debt recovery Plus website or phone number.

    It says !!!8216;please note this letter is to be considered a letter before claim for the purpose of ...!!!8217; and ends with !!!8216;our client does not consider that this matter is suitable for alternative dispute resolution!!!8217;.

    It also came with a Annex 1 information sheet.

    The first page of the letter is very vague though just says the date of the alleged contravention.

    !!!8216;Smart parking is entitled to these sums under contract law. When your vehicle parked at the above mentioned site, the driver of the vehicle agreed to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking which is displayed on signage throughout the site.!!!8217;

    Says some more about the driver being in breach and the sun still being outstanding then goes to mention the Parking eye VS Beavis 2015 case.

    I have 30 days to response to the letter.

    !!!8216;We reserve the right to refer to this letter, in particular on the question of costs should this matter proceed to trail!!!8217;

    Have Smart parking started to take people to court? I!!!8217;ve seen a few replies to 2017 questions about SCS Law saying to write back requesting all the information they have on the case etc.

    What!!!8217;s my next step? It!!!8217;s around £180 my charge. I have not advised smart parking on anyone chasing who the driver was. I have not contacted them te this ticket at all as previously mentioned in my original post.

    Thank you for any help
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Mar 18, 3:21 PM
    • 58,374 Posts
    • 71,904 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Next step for me is to suggest you read all the other threads about how to reply to an SCS Law letter. There is another case about Smart Parking st the same stage from last week, easy to find merely by browsing back a dozen pages and clicking on all SCS Law thread headers.

    Or by searching SCS Smart letter and changing the default to SHOW POSTS.

    Encouraging everyone to use the threads already here saves us drowning and repeating ourselves and stops newbies missing out on vital info already stated just a few days ago/a few threads down.

    am I guaranteed to lose if it went to court
    Did you realise that as registered keeper, you are almost guaranteed to WIN?! You can't be held liable if they do not know who was driving. End of.

    And Smart never sue in England/Wales - at the time of writing this - and if they did we'd be likely to help you win, as keeper, due to 'no keeper liability' since smart do not use POFA wording in their NTKs.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 24-03-2018 at 3:27 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 24th Mar 18, 9:21 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    Thank you I have read the Lbc sticky and a few previous posts and will draft my response tonight. Iíll post it on here once Iíve done It.

    Iím wondering if my letter is even a genuine letter from SCS Law or not but going to response either way.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 25th Mar 18, 11:21 AM
    • 9,478 Posts
    • 9,232 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • torontoboy45
    • By torontoboy45 25th Mar 18, 2:34 PM
    • 1,022 Posts
    • 2,128 Thanks
    torontoboy45
    Smart issued over 384000 tickets last year. Imagine, then, if 99% simply rolled over and paid. Imagine if the remaining 1% simply refused. Nearly 4000 people throwing themselves at the mercy of the county court. Except Smart only managed 18 cases. Just 18. Even then I'm not sure if these were held in England/Wales or how many they lost.

    Just sayin'.
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 4th Apr 18, 2:07 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    Can you advise on my reply before I sent it to SCS Law? I!!!8217;m a little confused if it is too generic and if I should go more into it when they reply? Also this is smart parking and they have no identitied the driver, should I mention it?
    !!!8212;!!!8212;

    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.
    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol. Yet after a quick google search, it is apparent that the generic Letter before Claim sent to me is the same, word for word, that you sent to other registered keepers irrespective of the Claim at hand, so you seem to think you are immune to the requirements and are relying on fear to get people to pay up without the correct information being presented.
    Your letter addressed to me contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, what time, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 8220;establishing yourself as the creditor;
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added



    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


    Yours faithfully
    • Dollypartoni
    • By Dollypartoni 4th Apr 18, 2:08 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dollypartoni
    I took out the beginning paragraph referencing the date etc. Sorry for the typos my phone decides what words to use for me!!!55357;!!!56873;
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Apr 18, 2:32 PM
    • 36,801 Posts
    • 83,273 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Item 7. Not so Smart are BPA members not IPC.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Apr 18, 2:54 PM
    • 17,982 Posts
    • 28,468 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I took out the beginning paragraph referencing the date etc. Sorry for the typos my phone decides what words to use for me!!!55357;!!!56873;
    Originally posted by Dollypartoni
    You can get rid of these by switching off your 'Smart Punctuation' on your iPhone/iPad and avoid clogging up your posts with !!!!8820 and the like as every apostrophe used converts to exclamation marks and numbers.

    Go to 'General' > 'Keyboard' > 'Smart Punctuation' and flick the switch off.

    Switching off seems to have no negative affect on any other use of the keyboard.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 4th Apr 18, 3:51 PM
    • 1,995 Posts
    • 2,754 Thanks
    nigelbb
    Smart issued over 384000 tickets last year. Imagine, then, if 99% simply rolled over and paid. Imagine if the remaining 1% simply refused. Nearly 4000 people throwing themselves at the mercy of the county court. Except Smart only managed 18 cases. Just 18. Even then I'm not sure if these were held in England/Wales or how many they lost.

    Just sayin'.
    Originally posted by torontoboy45
    There is also no saying that any of these cases were motorists taken to court by Smart for unpaid parking invoices. I don't recall us ever seeing a court case with Smart on this forum. Smart are a big company & they could have other reasons for initiating court case e.g. against suppliers or clients.
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