We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
URGENT - Help appealing Smart Parking parking charge
shar82
Posts: 7 Forumite
Hi can someone please help :money: I have read as much as I could on the newbies sticky
I received a letter in the post as my car was in a smart parking ltd car park for longer than 10 minutes. The total duration was just less than 14 minutes so 3-4 minutes over. I will paste the BPA template in the online appeal form, but is it worth mentioning I find the 14 minutes excessive if that helps get them right the charge off? or makes no difference at all, and stick to the original template without change?
Any help / advice is appreciated
P.S. the template I'll be pasting is the one including (unless there's a newer one)?:
"
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.
I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.
Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.
I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply."
I received a letter in the post as my car was in a smart parking ltd car park for longer than 10 minutes. The total duration was just less than 14 minutes so 3-4 minutes over. I will paste the BPA template in the online appeal form, but is it worth mentioning I find the 14 minutes excessive if that helps get them right the charge off? or makes no difference at all, and stick to the original template without change?
Any help / advice is appreciated
P.S. the template I'll be pasting is the one including (unless there's a newer one)?:
"
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.
I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.
Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.
I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply."
0
Comments
-
Send it as is0
-
use this one from post #4
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73242562#Comment_73242562
adapt it and remove the POFA2012 paragraph unless the NTK came in the post after day 15 (in which case leave it in)
the GRACE PERIODS are mainly what matters here so keep that paragraph in
there are TWO grace periods, not one , one before and one after (to leave)0 -
thank you both, this is the appeal in post 4:
Dear Sirs
Re: PCN No. ....................
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.
I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge, mainly for the following two reasons.
You have failed POFA2012 due to late delivery of the NTK .
Also Clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies here and this appeal, any subsequent appeal and also any court case will have this as a prominent argument as to why this invoice should be cancelled.
Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.
I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully,
Cannot see a mention of grace period? am I being dumb if possible please send me the complete appeal to paste (Sorry for sounding stupid and thanks in advance)0 -
you should be downloading and reading the BPA CoP dated october 2015 if you want to know some of the grounds to appeal on
read clause #13 of that CoP , because it is GRACE PERIODS that you mentioned in your opening post and I almost agreed with you, except there are 2 grace periods, not one and that is why the extra paragraph is in there , to cover that scenario
my linked post above has 2 additional appeal grounds compared to the one you posted , grace periods (clause #13) and POFA2012 failure as well
did the NTK arrive after day 15 ? or before day 15 ?
the answer will decide if you remove that paragraph or not
YOU need to adapt it so its truthful and only inclues any extra paragraphs that are relevant
95% of the work was done for you , now its your turn0 -
The notice arrived before day 15
Also thank you, I read an older version hence why grace period was not mentioned in there, but found a newer version and grace period is mentioned under #13
This is the amended version:
Dear Sirs
Re: PCN No. ....................
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.
I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.
Also Clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies here and this appeal, any subsequent appeal and also any court case will have this as a prominent argument as to why this invoice should be cancelled.
Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.
I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully,0 -
yes , another one of my edits and adaptations
as you can see, its been altered slighly from the original PLUS the clause #13 paragraph has been added
its not hard if people put some effort in , and you do need to understand the grounds for appealing , which will have more legal points in any subsequent popla appeal
so lets say 5 minutes to park up and over 10 minutes to leave following the parking period
2 grace periods , NO overstay0 -
thank you redx it is appreciated - the version I've posted up there is good enough for the appeal so I'm ok to submit it online? sorry for repeating but just need confirmation - never had this sort of thing happen before so you guys are great help0
-
yes its fine and is how it should be , so as you can see, self research works
I would still advise you to read the BPA CoP clause #13 carefully so you understand why 2 grace periods apply
I always assume its UP TO 10 MINUTES to park up , read the signs and comply with any tickets etc , plus OVER 10 minutes to leave means 11 or more minutes, so at a busy seaside car park like fistral beach this could be twenty minutes to leave , or more, due to traffic delays
context is the key
in post #1 , you stated that the driver "overstayed" , my opinion is that this is incorrect, they did not "overstay" at all , as 14 minutes added to a chargeable parking period is within the BPA CoP , so no "overstay" has taken place
but not so SMART have interpreted matters incorrectly (and as always its in their interest not yours) and popla should find in your favour if smart fail to cancel
the additional paragraph is what should alert them to the fact that you have cottoned on to this grace periods clause and will be using it
proving you are not a mug and cannot be mugged0 -
Was the total stay 13 mins?
Your OP seems to say this??0 -
a few seconds under 14 minutes0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.3K Spending & Discounts
- 247K Work, Benefits & Business
- 603.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.3K Life & Family
- 261.2K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards