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  • FIRST POST
    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 29th Nov 17, 6:39 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 15Thanks
    a1terrier
    PCN date
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:39 PM
    PCN date 29th Nov 17 at 6:39 PM
    Hi All


    New poster here with a quick question. (tried the newbie page but no luck)


    I have an ongoing issue with a well known parking/debt recovery company.


    Am I correct in thinking that as the PCN was dated 49 days after the alleged offence is it enforceable?
    There was no parking ticket on the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence, just entry and exit pics of the vehicle on the PCN.


    Many Thanks
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 29th Nov 17, 7:01 PM
    • 18,481 Posts
    • 23,407 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:01 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:01 PM
    they can try to enforce it in the small claims court (MCOL) and it is definitely enforceable against the driver !!

    it appears they failed POFA2012 due to the keeper not receiving it within 14 days, so in theory can only pursue the driver (if known)

    but they will try to make the keeper pay up or dob the driver in so dont assume it will go away

    the debt collectors are powerless , IGNORE them

    the ppc has 6 years to try a court claim in england and wales , 5 in scotland

    do not reveal who was driving
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 29th Nov 17, 7:43 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:43 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:43 PM
    Thanks Redx


    As I said no ticket on car and 49 days between alleged offence and date on PCN.


    I have written to parking company with a template letter basically telling them to do one as although I was the registered keeper I was not the driver. They do not know the drivers name.
    I then received a letter from a legal company last year asking for payment to which I replied saying I was not liable as I was not the driver enclosing a copy of the letter I sent to the parking company (With proof of receipt)
    I have now received a Letter Of Claim from said legal company. Do I pay up, ignore, or respond with one of the many do one templates?
    Many Thanks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 29th Nov 17, 8:27 PM
    • 18,481 Posts
    • 23,407 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:27 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:27 PM
    respond with a recent template , with any changes made as required , where the new Pap from oct 2017 is referenced (see post #2 of the newbies sticky thread)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 29th Nov 17, 9:24 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:24 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:24 PM
    Thanks Redx
    Should I threaten harassment
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 9:29 PM
    • 18,359 Posts
    • 29,056 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:29 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:29 PM
    It would help if you told us who you are dealing with. It will enable us to advise you more accurately that simple generic advice.

    Should I threaten harassment
    That has the potential to get you into real trouble.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 29th Nov 17, 9:42 PM
    • 8,719 Posts
    • 9,069 Thanks
    pogofish
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:42 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:42 PM
    I have an ongoing issue with a well known parking/debt recovery company.
    Originally posted by a1terrier
    You have no issue with any debt recovery firm - and they are fully covered by post four of the Newbies Sticky.
    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 29th Nov 17, 10:06 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:06 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:06 PM
    Hi
    excel/bw legal
    Been going on for 18 months
    • Redx
    • By Redx 29th Nov 17, 11:19 PM
    • 18,481 Posts
    • 23,407 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:19 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:19 PM
    Hi
    excel/bw legal
    Been going on for 18 months
    Originally posted by a1terrier
    they have 72 months in total to issue a court claim , so only a quarter of the way through
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 2nd Jan 18, 2:44 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    Hi All


    Quick update on above.
    I sent BW Legal a template from the newbie page reply in response to their letter of claim asking if they were pursuing me as the keeper (I was) or the driver (I was not)and was there any contractual breech etc etc.


    They received my letter but have not responded to it only sent me a Pending County Court Claim signed by a robot.


    Should I resend a copy of the letter with a secondary letter saying any further claims from them will be treated as harassment or is there a suitable template reply on here.


    There were 49 days between the date of the alleged offence and the date of the first PCN and no ticket was attached to the vehicle.


    Thanks for any advice
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Jan 18, 1:07 AM
    • 59,465 Posts
    • 72,633 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Same as all the other ones with that letter.

    Hopefully you've now looked and read the other current/same issue threads. We don't have the capacity and can't repeat the same thing for everyone and we have to assume newbies have bookmarked other BW Legal threads.

    We hope you've not just piloted in after a month's absence and landed back on this little old thread alone, asking an isolated question without (please, first) looking through the forum this weekend to find the threads discussing the EXACT same letter umpteen times already.

    Please do read the rest...! Everyone has asked 'shall I respond again'...and it feels like Groundhog Day on here tonight.

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-01-2018 at 1:11 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 3rd Jan 18, 10:06 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    Thanks for reply Coupon-Mad


    I havnt just `piloted in`. We have just returned from holiday to find the PCCC `letter` from BW Legal on the doormat.
    I have searched the newbie part at length but am unable to find a robust response to the PCCC letter.


    As BW havn`t responded at all to my response to their LBC I intend to write to them again with a copy and proof of posting telling them that a response to my letter is required within 14 days answering all the items therein otherwise I will consider the matter closed as I was not the driver at the time of the alleged offence.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jan 18, 12:34 AM
    • 59,465 Posts
    • 72,633 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Read other threads like yours, exact same letter - easy to search for.

    Not the NEWBIES thread, go beyond that; copy what other posters did. All discussed last week and the week before.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 7th May 18, 5:24 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    H i All
    Quick update, had my day in court and won. Hearing lasted about 4 minutes. District Judge ripped into their `advocate` and said I had no case to answer as I had twice provided written proof I was not driving.
    Thanks to all on here and at BMPA for their help and advice.
    Anyone facing a similar case where you have proof, keep going until the end it is worth it. Court is nothing to be alarmed about.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th May 18, 6:59 AM
    • 18,359 Posts
    • 29,056 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done, good win and you seem to have done most of this on your own without having to have the forum go through every word you have written in your defence, witness statement, evidence, bundle .... ad nauseam. Refreshing.

    Could you tell us which court, judge's name, who the 'advocate' was, which company they were from (Elms Legal?) - this really helps us to build a picture of where the judges seem to understand the scam.

    Did you receive costs?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 7th May 18, 7:20 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    Thanks


    Bradford County Court, District Judge Hickinbottom. Not sure where the advocate was from, just a young girl. I didn't get any chance to say much apart from my name as the Judge tore into her from the start as if he was sick and tired of hearing cases like mine. BW really went to town on their defence bundle, it looked impressive but most of it wasn't relative to the case. Why did they send over 30 pages of car reg numbers accessing the car park on that day? That wasn't the issue, the issue was it wasn't me driving despite me proving to them twice I was elsewhere at the time. I really can`t believe they continue to pursue cases they have no chance of winning.
    Judge dismissed my counterclaim, he did ask me about costs but it was 2 for parking and 2 in fuel and I said I wasn't too concerned about that. I am recently retired so no loss of earnings.
    All in all a very enjoyable experience.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th May 18, 8:16 AM
    • 18,359 Posts
    • 29,056 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    this really helps us to build a picture of where the judges seem to understand the scam.
    the Judge tore into her from the start as if he was sick and tired of hearing cases like mine.
    He understands the scam!

    I really can`t believe they continue to pursue cases they have no chance of winning.
    Albert Einstein is broadly credited with exclaiming "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results".
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th May 18, 12:08 AM
    • 59,465 Posts
    • 72,633 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Bradford County Court, District Judge Hickinbottom.

    Not sure where the advocate was from, just a young girl. I didn't get any chance to say much apart from my name as the Judge tore into her from the start as if he was sick and tired of hearing cases like mine.

    BW really went to town on their defence bundle, it looked impressive but most of it wasn't relative to the case.

    Why did they send over 30 pages of car reg numbers accessing the car park on that day? That wasn't the issue, the issue was it wasn't me driving despite me proving to them twice I was elsewhere at the time. I really can't believe they continue to pursue cases they have no chance of winning.

    Judge dismissed my counterclaim, he did ask me about costs but it was 2 for parking and 2 in fuel and I said I wasn't too concerned about that. I am recently retired so no loss of earnings.
    All in all a very enjoyable experience.
    Originally posted by a1terrier


    Brilliant, I must show this to another person whose case is due at Bradford soon. Well done to you, and glad that court is fed up with PPCs scams.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • a1terrier
    • By a1terrier 8th May 18, 5:59 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    a1terrier
    Thanks
    If that person wants to send me a private message about it tell them its ok and I will gladly talk them through the `experience` rather than do it on the forum
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th May 18, 6:27 PM
    • 59,465 Posts
    • 72,633 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Oh, I bet he will appreciate it, the poster is stevey:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5837626&page=2

    send him a pm explaining you are a1terrier and does he have any questions?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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