Moving from ESA to Universal Credit

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  • Alice_Holt
    Alice_Holt Posts: 5,950 Forumite
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    edited 1 February 2018 at 4:45PM
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    Have a look at this:
    https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Universal_Credit_Work_Capability_Assessment
    which says "In some circumstances you can be treated as having limited capability for work in Universal Credit without having to go through the work capability assessment, for example if you ......
    If you move to Universal Credit from Employment and Support Allowance and have already been assessed as having limited capability for work you will not have to undertake the assessment again. If you were in the work related activity group you will be awarded the LCW element and if you were in the support group you will be awarded the LCWRA element."

    So, I think the JC coach is incorrect, but I don't have the UC regulations to quote though.

    There is a lot of misinformation / misunderstanding within the JC / DWP about UC, and I'm not sure how he could remedy this.

    Suggestions might include:
    1) Copying this info to his journal, asking for clarification.
    2) You & your friend ring the JC and ask to speak to a manager - You then speak on behalf of your friend, once he has given permission.
    3) You & your friend contact your local CAB.
    4) You & your friend ring the UC helpline (although their knowledge can be very limited - you may have to insist on a call back from someone more clued up).

    Hopefully (if I'm right on this) pmlindyloo may be able to provide the UC regulations reference, which you can quote at the DWP.

    EDIT: Cross posted with pmlindyloo who has indeed provided the UC regulations reference, which you can quote at the DWP.
    Thanks pmllinyloo
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
  • pmlindyloo
    pmlindyloo Posts: 13,049 Forumite
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    If he was on ESA WRAG then he should be placed in the work preparation group.

    Details of the requirements:

    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit/Claimant-Commitment-Conditionality
  • r.a.i.n.b.o.w
    r.a.i.n.b.o.w Posts: 638 Forumite
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    edited 1 February 2018 at 4:51PM
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    He's still at the very beginning of his UC claim - he moved 2 weeks ago and applied for UC/saw JC last week. He's been told he can't claim UC as an ill person/limited capability until they see a fit note, but he can't get that fit note until his new GP has him fully registered. He's had one payment - an "advance" payment (ie: a loan) which he was told he has to pay back over the next 12 months. There was no breakdown as to what this covers.

    I just don't understand why they 1) need a fit note when a previous ESA award (which ended upon the UC application) proves that he has limited capability, and 2) are warning him about sanction for non compliance when there was nothing on the info sheet that he had to agree to regarding ESA or limited capability.

    EDIT: cross posed with both of you :)
  • r.a.i.n.b.o.w
    r.a.i.n.b.o.w Posts: 638 Forumite
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    Thank you both - he's querying with his work coach, with a request to be pointed at the correct info if they say he's wrong. Thanks!
  • r.a.i.n.b.o.w
    r.a.i.n.b.o.w Posts: 638 Forumite
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    edited 1 February 2018 at 7:31PM
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    Just an update - I wrote a note for him and on behalf of him, part of it said:
    "According to https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Universal_Credit_Work_Capability_Assessment - “If you move to Universal Credit from Employment and Support Allowance and have already been assessed as having limited capability for work you will not have to undertake the assessment again. If you were in the work related activity group you will be awarded the LCW element and if you were in the support group you will be awarded the LCWRA element.” This means that as [his name-redacted] has already been assessed as having LCW he shouldn’t be having supply a GP’s fit note, as these are only required at the assessment phase of a UC claim and therefore unnecessary for a UC claimant who is migrating from ESA.[FONT=&quot] Please could you look into this, and if I am incorrect, please send links to the relevant legislation."[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    His work coach has replied "it is a requirement under UC" to supply the fit note if his commitment to "intensive work seaches" is to change. She supplied no links.

    Thanks in advance :)



    .
    [/FONT]
  • Alice_Holt
    Alice_Holt Posts: 5,950 Forumite
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    Try quoting from: The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014 -

    Transition from old style ESA

    Regulation 19.—(1) This regulation applies where—
    (a) an award of universal credit is made to a claimant who was entitled to old style ESA on
    the date on which the claim for universal credit was made or treated as made (“the
    relevant date”); and
    (b) on or before the relevant date it had been determined that the claimant was entitled to
    the work-related activity component or to the support component.
    (2) Where, on or before the relevant date, it had been determined that the claimant was entitled
    to the work-related activity component—
    (a) regulation 27(3) of the Universal Credit Regulations (award to include LCW and
    LCWRA elements) does not apply; and
    (b) the claimant is to be treated as having limited capability for work for the purposes of
    regulation 27(1)(a) of those Regulations and section 21(1)(a) of the Act.


    And, of course, limited capability for work certainly does not include "intensive work searches"

    But, given that your friend will have an ongoing relationship with this work coach then she needs to be corrected in the most diplomatic fashion possible.

    I think she is wrong, which is why she cannot quote any UC regulations to support her case.
    She is perhaps getting confused, as had you friend transitioned to UC without an ESA award, then he would indeed need to supply a fit notes in order to change his claimant commitment.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
  • r.a.i.n.b.o.w
    r.a.i.n.b.o.w Posts: 638 Forumite
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    BRILLIANT! Absolutely brilliant!! Thank you!
  • louangel311
    louangel311 Posts: 11 Forumite
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    I've been reading this thread with interest and am PRAYING someone can give me an answer to this!

    I've been in receipt of ESA since December 2012 in the WRAG group. On 27 February 2017, the DWP decided I was fit for work and took my ESA off me :( I spent 8 months going through a Mandatory Reconsideration and a Tribunal........which I won :) I had my ESA reinstated on 13 October 2017 - the judge overturned the Secretary of State's decision to take my ESA off me on 27 February 2017.

    So.......does that mean I have had a continuous ESA claim since December 2012?

    I want to move home, to a different area. My current area is a Universal Credit "live" area and goes to full service on 14.2.18. I know if I have no change in circumstances i.e. I DON'T move, I'll get transitional protection and won't be any worse off.

    So.......my question is - if I move to a full service UC area will this be classed as a change in circumstances and - will they take my Limited Capability for Work component away from me and will I have to undergo another WCA to see if under the UC rules I'm classed as having limited capability for work?

    If my LCW element isn't protected, I can't make the move as I'll be £124.20 every four weeks, worse off.

    Thank you
  • poppy12345
    poppy12345 Posts: 17,960 Forumite
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    louangel311 wrote: »
    I've been reading this thread with interest and am PRAYING someone can give me an answer to this!

    I've been in receipt of ESA since December 2012 in the WRAG group. On 27 February 2017, the DWP decided I was fit for work and took my ESA off me :( I spent 8 months going through a Mandatory Reconsideration and a Tribunal........which I won :) I had my ESA reinstated on 13 October 2017 - the judge overturned the Secretary of State's decision to take my ESA off me on 27 February 2017.

    So.......does that mean I have had a continuous ESA claim since December 2012?

    I want to move home, to a different area. My current area is a Universal Credit "live" area and goes to full service on 14.2.18. I know if I have no change in circumstances i.e. I DON'T move, I'll get transitional protection and won't be any worse off.

    So.......my question is - if I move to a full service UC area will this be classed as a change in circumstances and - will they take my Limited Capability for Work component away from me and will I have to undergo another WCA to see if under the UC rules I'm classed as having limited capability for work?

    If my LCW element isn't protected, I can't make the move as I'll be £124.20 every four weeks, worse off.

    Thank you
    If you move to a different council and the area is a full universal credit area then you'll have to claim UC not ESA. No one gets transitional protect yet because it doesn't exist.

    If you do move to UC then yes you'll most likely eventually need another assessment.
  • poppy12345
    poppy12345 Posts: 17,960 Forumite
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    Transitional protection will only be put into place when managed migration starts. This hasn't started yet, therefore there's no transitional protection in place. If you move to a full universal credit area and you claim the premiums on your ESA, they will not be paid on UC.
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