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  • FIRST POST
    • darchas
    • By darchas 3rd Nov 17, 10:55 AM
    • 24Posts
    • 5Thanks
    darchas
    Parking Eye County Court Claim Form
    • #1
    • 3rd Nov 17, 10:55 AM
    Parking Eye County Court Claim Form 3rd Nov 17 at 10:55 AM
    Hi everyone,

    First post here, spent some time reading through older threads but was hoping for some advice on this one please.

    I received a parking fine from Parking Eye for overstaying in a service station car park for 30 minutes (maximum free time was 2 hours). I was meeting someone at the Services and we had something to eat and drink which ended up taking me over the time. I will admit that it didn't cross my mind that there would be a time limit on a service station - it's not really as if you can go anywhere else, and the whole point of the place is to be able to stop for a rest!

    Anyway, I was a bit disgruntled by the charge. I didn't appeal through POPLA as, in truth, I didn't feel like I had a case. The signs were clear, I just didn't notice them, and I did indeed overstay. My gripe was more that I had paid to use the service station's services and now had a 100 charge. I understand enforcing parking time limits in a town centre supermarket to stop people abusing the car park by parking there and going on to work etc, but in a service station it felt like a blatant rip off - the car park is never anywhere near full, and I don't see how people can abuse the free parking as there's nowhere to go, being in the middle of a motorway!

    So I emailed the customer service centre for the service station in the hope that they would get it cancelled. I didn't receive a response, and when I received my next Parking Eye letter, I emailed a different address directing this to their management team.

    I didn't hear anything for a bit so thought that it had indeed been cancelled. Now though I have a County Court Claim form from Parking Eye dated the 31st October. I now owe 175! I am really loathe to pay this amount and feel like making it as hard as possible for Parking Eye to take this money from me.

    I am not sure of the best way to proceed and so any advice would be appreciated.

    On the threads I have read the advice is to file an acknowledgement of service, while preparing a defence to be sent in within 28 days. My trouble is I really don't feel I have a defence! I did overstay, it was during the day so, if he had been more observant, or had been expecting parking charges, I would've seen the signs. I just feel the charge is ridiculous considering it's a service station and, to my mind, I used it for what it's for! Obviously though this isn't a legal defence!

    What do you think? Do I need to pay the 175 at this stage? Or could I continue to make it a bit difficult for PE by prolonging this further? Could I submit some sort of defence while taking this up once again with the service station?

    Any advice would be much appreciated!

    Thank you
Page 2
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Nov 17, 1:00 PM
    • 7,167 Posts
    • 6,644 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi

    Just a quick question - I've seen this on the forum somewhere but can't seem to find it again. I have printed my defence to send through the post, on the online claim defence section do I leave this blank? Or reference the fact that it's in the post?

    Thanks for your help
    Originally posted by darchas
    You leave that online box entirely blank.

    If you put anything in that box, it will be treated as your defence.

    Yes you did read it somewhere - in Bargepole's walkthrough linked from post #2 ot the NEWBIES thread:
    Do NOT put anything in the 'Defence and Counterclaim' text box, not even a full stop.
    .
    • darchas
    • By darchas 18th Nov 17, 2:14 PM
    • 24 Posts
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    darchas
    Ah, brilliant, thanks KeithP - I'm glad I asked!!
    • darchas
    • By darchas 12th Dec 17, 11:51 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Hello

    Received a form today through the post - titled 'Directions questionnaire (Small Claims Track)'. I did have a search of the forum but didn't find anything on it.

    It's been completed by Parking Eye. It looks like something they fill in for the court, the copy I have has been scanned and printed so I'm assuming the court have received it from Parking Eye and have sent me a copy.

    I'm guessing this is confirmation that Parking Eye are proceeding with the case. Is that was this is? There's no other note with the form so it doesn't look like I need to do anything with it.

    Thanks
    • darchas
    • By darchas 12th Dec 17, 11:59 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Ignore the question above - I have also received PE's reply to my defense - all 40 pages of it!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Dec 17, 12:41 PM
    • 2,454 Posts
    • 3,004 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Go through it
    Work out everything that is
    1) irrelevant
    2) introducing new arguments not present in their PoC
    3) wrong
    etc....
    • darchas
    • By darchas 12th Dec 17, 2:58 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Go through it
    Work out everything that is
    1) irrelevant
    2) introducing new arguments not present in their PoC
    3) wrong
    etc....
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    I need to have a closer read, but it's pretty much a point by point rebuttal of my defence. There's a lot of referring to other cases in law.

    One interesting bit that caught my eye is that they 'assert' that my defence is one that has been distributed in 'online forums' to people attempting to avoid paying parking charges. They also say they have received a large number of near-identical defences. Which makes me wonder how well these have done in the court. Either way it all seems like an irrelevant point to me, either the defence is valid or it's not. Given I have no legal knowledge whatsoever it's surely to be expected that I'd do some research to prepare my defence!
    Last edited by darchas; 12-12-2017 at 3:06 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • 2,454 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Yes, of course it appears to rebut it. this is their template style response. But does it ACTUALLY rebut it? the entire POINT of the pack is to put you off, and to make it appear like it has rebutted your defence - and to discourage you from you from reading closer.
    • darchas
    • By darchas 12th Dec 17, 3:44 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Ok thanks. So, I take it that my purpose of reading it to identify what's wrong, irrelevant etc is to prepare myself for court? ie there's no other steps now (apart from Witness statement).
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Dec 17, 3:55 PM
    • 2,454 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Yes there are other steps!
    Skeleton Argument, which dissects their claim, and shows how your defence is solid.
    So yes, you read it, work out whats wrong - for example on any map is it signed? dated? definitely the same site? Do the signs it purports to claim exist actualy exist? Is it even a MAP or merely a PLAN (on a plan, its not the actual map of signs, just where they planned to put signs...) and so on .
    • darchas
    • By darchas 12th Dec 17, 4:20 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    I'll get to work then! Thanks for your help
    • darchas
    • By darchas 5th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Hi there everyone

    I have now received my 'Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)' letter, and have a court date set for May.

    I have seen reference to a Skeleton Argument and Witness statement in the Newbie's guides, but I'm not sure when I should send these or where to. They aren't mentioned in the letter, or at least by name. There is a line that says that 'each party shall deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely'. Does this refer to the skeleton arguments and witness statement?

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by darchas; 05-03-2018 at 7:28 PM. Reason: Spelling!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 70,997 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    There is a line that says that 'each party shall deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely'. Does this refer to the skeleton arguments and witness statement?
    Yes - vague though it is (blame the courts service) it refers to the WS and evidence.

    A SA is optional and not a priority, so read a few forum examples of WS and evidence and show us your version and what you intend to file as evidence (some hints are in the NEWBIES thread).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • darchas
    • By darchas 5th Mar 18, 7:40 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    That's great - thanks Coupon-Mad. I'll look through a few examples and put something together.
    • darchas
    • By darchas 8th Mar 18, 10:33 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Hello everyone,

    I have put together my WS. I'm not particularly confident that I have got this right, so any thoughts would be appreciated!

    In the matter of

    ******** (Claimant)
    v
    ******** (Defendant)

    Claim no:

    Witness statement of Mr *******, defendant


    I am the Defendant in this matter, I am unrepresented, with no experience of Court procedures. If I do not set out documents in the way that the Claimant may do, I trust the Court will excuse my inexperience.
    In this Witness statement, the facts and matters stated are true and within my own knowledge, except where indicated otherwise.


    1. On the date in question I used the ********* service station on the M* to rest and refresh. On that day I had been caught in a downpour of rain while walking a two mile journey from a meeting in ****** to my car. On the drive home I felt unwell and so stopped in the service station. I used the facilities to dry off, obtain refreshments, and rest.

    2. I did not realise at the time that there was a charge for exceeding two hours stay on the car park. I believe that the signage for the service station car park is inadequate to effectively communicate a contractual obligation.

    3. I don!!!8217;t believe that the signage complies with the Code of Practice of the British Parking Association Accredited Operators scheme, specifically point 28.2 !!!8211; !!!8220;Entrance Signs, located at the entrance to the car park, must tell drivers that the car is managed and that there are terms and conditions which they must be aware of.!!!8221;

    4. Since returning to the car park I notice that there is a sign on exit from the motorway, I believe that this signage is insufficient as the entrance to the car park is some distance behind the petrol station which is the first turn off after exiting the motorway, it is not clear that the sign relates to the carpark and not the parking spaces on the petrol station car park.

    5. With this being a motorway service station I had an honest expectation that there was no charge for parking, given the function of a service station is generally understood for patrons to rest and refresh to prevent driving when not feeling suitably fit.

    6. I feel that the charge issued by the Claimant is unjust and that charging overstayers who have need to rest is unfair and has no commercial justification.

    7. After receiving the initial notice of parking charges from the Claimant, I attempted to get in contact with the owners of the Service Station, ********. I did not reply directly to the Claimant as I had no reason to believe that the charge was legitimate, or that the Claimant had the right to charge a penalty for use of the car park. In total I sent two emails to ********* explaining my situation, however I did not receive a response. After the second email I did not receive communication from the Claimant for some time and so believed that the matter had been resolved.

    8. I believe that the penalty charge is unfair and disproportionate considering I used the car park in good faith, making use of the service station facilities as I believed they were intended.

    9. The Claimant alleges that my !!!8216;defence is a standard and generic template, distributed on online forums to Defendants attempting to avoid paying Parking Charges!!!8217;. I feel that this is very unfair, I have no experience of court procedures or legal arguments, and this case has caused me to spend a great deal of time and effort on research. I have put together my defence to the best of my ability and I don!!!8217;t see how the fact that !!!8216;Parking Eye has received !!!8216;a large number of identical or near-identical defences!!!8217; is relevant to my case.

    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

    Signed xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Dated xxxxxxxxxxx


    I'm not sure my last point is valid in a WS but it's something that annoyed me and so I wanted to get it off my chest somewhere! If this is not the right place I'll remove it.

    As evidence I intend to provide photos showing the position of the sign on exit to the motorway and the fact that the actual car park has no sign on entrance.

    Thanks in advance for your help!

    D
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Mar 18, 12:30 PM
    • 2,454 Posts
    • 3,004 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You need to include in your WS references to any evidence you wish to rely upon. So for example, photos of signs, copies of lettters etc. This is the only chance you have to do this.
    • darchas
    • By darchas 8th Mar 18, 12:52 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    You need to include in your WS references to any evidence you wish to rely upon. So for example, photos of signs, copies of lettters etc. This is the only chance you have to do this.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Thank you. I'll add in reference to the photos. Does everything else read ok/seem valid?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Mar 18, 12:57 PM
    • 2,454 Posts
    • 3,004 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You really need to ensure your WS follows the form of your defence. Ensure you cover all elements of it, as you need to provide support for your defene

    It lays out the facts that you know, or could reasonably know.
    • darchas
    • By darchas 9th Mar 18, 9:14 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Hello

    Just a quick question - once I have printed my WS and photo evidence, I post these to the court - do I also post a copy to Parking Eye?

    Thanks
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th Mar 18, 11:25 AM
    • 2,454 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Yes, as yo uare told to do by the hearing letter, and as you are told to do when reading post 2 of the newbies thread

    Please, cehck there first, every time you have questions.
    • darchas
    • By darchas 9th Mar 18, 12:26 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    darchas
    Yes, as yo uare told to do by the hearing letter, and as you are told to do when reading post 2 of the newbies thread

    Please, cehck there first, every time you have questions.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Ok will do, thank you.
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