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    • Simonrobin
    • By Simonrobin 4th Oct 17, 11:44 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Letter Before Claim
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:44 AM
    Letter Before Claim 4th Oct 17 at 11:44 AM
    I wonder if someone can help.

    I have received a 'Letter Before Claim' from Gladstones Solicitors.

    I originally received a 2nd postal notification of a parking charge from PCM (UK)LTD (I didn't receive the first) regarding being parked in a restricted area. It's an access road to a sorting office and I was dropping off and picking up a passenger collecting from the sorting office.
    I wrote back a without prejudice letter explaining the signage was not clear as the signs the fence look like they apply to the adjacent car parks and yards off the access rd and that I was not parked as the driver never left the vehicle or switched the engine off. I later received two debt collecting agency letters demanding payment which I promptly ignored, as I read on a forum that privity of contract rules entitle the parties of a contract to sue each other for damages but prevent third parties from doing so. If a contract for parking existed, the parties involved would be myself and the car parking firm.

    The debt collection firm are a third party, and therefore cannot take legal action and implying they can is a false representation of law and fact.

    This leads to the Gladstones letter. I have admitted who the driver was and the charge amount has now risen to 160 from the original 60.

    Does any one have a template letter or can offer any advice?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Oct 17, 1:17 PM
    • 2,850 Posts
    • 3,536 Thanks
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 1:17 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 1:17 PM
    "and that I was not parked as the driver never left the vehicle or switched the engine off"

    No, that is utterly irrelevant when it comes to being parked. Try that on a double yellow and you will get a shock

    What you were involved in was boarding / alighting, which is legally distinct (as in, it is defined in statute in the TMA2004) from parking.

    What do the signs say? Is it REALLY Gladstones, or does it say to pay DRP?
    I'll give you great odds that its ythe latter!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    • 18,484 Posts
    • 23,407 Thanks
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    does the reference start with a 1 or a 3 ?

    if its a 1 - its a gladrags letter

    if its a 3 , its a DRP letter on a pimped out letterhead

    if it says to contact DRP then its a DRP letter
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Simonrobin
    • By Simonrobin 4th Oct 17, 2:14 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 2:14 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 2:14 PM
    The letter reference starts with a one....

    The original sign on site is by PCM (UK) LTD..

    If that helps
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Oct 17, 2:44 PM
    • 36,302 Posts
    • 20,548 Thanks
    • #5
    • 4th Oct 17, 2:44 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Oct 17, 2:44 PM
    A "1" indicates it's "genuine"!

    Read up in the newbies faq thread on how to deal with a lbbca/court claim (#2 in the FAQ)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Oct 17, 10:01 PM
    • 59,465 Posts
    • 72,635 Thanks
    • #6
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:01 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:01 PM
    Yep, you need a robust response abut the new Protocol and the evidence you require. A new example has been worked on in Daniel san's thread (no link needed because it's current, and it's already linked in the NEWBIES thread post #2).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Simonrobin
    • By Simonrobin 12th Jan 18, 12:05 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:05 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:05 PM
    Can anyone help on the following:

    I responded to Gladstones Letter before claim as suggested with thanks by Coupon-mad, please see below:

    Dear Sirs,

    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 26th September 2017.
    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.
    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 !!!8220;establishing yourself as the creditor!!!8221;
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Gladstones responded on the 5th December, noting the content of the letter, however, stating it only applies to matters whereby the LBC was issued after the 1st Oct 2017. Therefore the debt is still outstanding and due within 14 days, after that time legal proceedings will be issued.

    On the 15th December I sent a letter to Gladstones with a cheque made payable to Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd. ( Unfortunately at the time I had a bereavement in the family and couldn't face dealing with the matter)

    On the 11th Jan I received a County Court Claim Form from Northampton for the sum of 242.20.

    I fully understand that the forum is normally used to dispute the full amount, but given my current circumstances I dispute only part of the claim, however, can anyone offer any advice, particularly as I don't think this should have even made the court. No allowance has been given to any delays with the post occurring over the Christmas Holidays.



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