where are Indigo's terms and conditions?

park_ranger · 15 September 2017 at 1:50PM

I'm just starting the appeals process against Indigo for a penalty notice that claimed the driver breached code 7 - "Not parked fully within a marked bay/designated area"
The car was parked with the inside of one wheel about 10cm over the white bay marking line, the other three wheels were well within the bay.

The ticket says 'Appeals should be made in accordance with the terms and conditions of parking.

Does anyone know where these terms and conditions are so that I can make sure I am in accordance with them? The only T&C on their web site are the T&Cs for using their app or their web site.

Also does anyone know where a definitive list of breach codes may be found?'

At the station car park there is a sign that refers to bylaw 14 (of what I'm not sure) and it shows several icons, one of which, with a red cross over it, shows a car parked almost diagonally over the line between two bays next to the words, "You must park within a single authorised parking bay or in a marked authorised area".

This is not the same wording as the breach code they claim, in particular the word 'fully' is missing from the sign displayed in the car park.

pappa_golf · 15 September 2017 at 1:55PM

At the station car park there is a sign that refers to bylaw 14 (of what I'm not sure) and it shows several icons, one of which, with a red cross over it, shows a car parked almost diagonally over the line between two bays next to the words, "You must park within a single authorised parking bay or in a marked authorised area".

THAT is not in any bylaw used by train companies , its a term used by indigo , and is $%^&*($ on railway land

type bylaw in search box , POPLa will not allow bylaw land cases and indigo will pull out rather than pay £27

park_ranger · 15 September 2017 at 2:42PM

Thanks pappa golf (I notice that you seem to be a a very knowledgeable person here and I appreciate you getting back so quickly).
I'm not sure what you mean by $%^&*($ but on reading some of the posts about railway land and bylaws the gist of it seems to be that only the railway can issue a penalty notice for breaching a bylaw and not Indigo. Is that right?

So should my approach be along the lines, as suggested here, to give the minimum info in an appeal to Indigo and then go for the POPLA appeal at which point I could raise that as its railway land and they haven't issued a penalty then I've no case to answer - I might also raise the de minimus principle.

Slightly worried about POPLA's comments about them not accepting new reasons for appeal at the POPLA stage that were not raised at the Indigo appeal stage though. Am I right to be worried?

pappa_golf · 15 September 2017 at 2:57PM

POPLa cannot adjudicate in land that is non relivent to the private parking laws in the UK , they will decline indigo ,

ONLY the TOC can bring charges (within 6mths) , send your appeal in , I fear that no POPLa code will appear , they will tell the BPA they posted it , its now cat and mouse time , perhaps say very little to indio , dont let them know you understand bylaws , then hit em hard at POPLa , with the first line "RAILWAY BYLAW LAND "

Umkomaas · 15 September 2017 at 3:42PM

I'm not sure what you mean by $%^&*($

It's a typo, I don't think his spell checker is working.

He means 'bollox'.

park_ranger · 15 September 2017 at 4:04PM

Really appreciate the quick replies but this is all new to me and I don't really understand the subtleties of this.

When you say "they will decline indigo". do you mean that POPLa will decline to consider an appeal from me because it relates to Ingido and railway land (especially if I don't get a POPLa number from Indigo) or do you mean that POPLa will consider my appeal with or without such a number and will probably uphold my appeal and decline Indigo's claim for a penalty? In which case that's good news.

I'll have a read though the templates here to see if there is one I understand and that is relevant to my case.

BTW who or what is 'the TOC'?

KeithP · 15 September 2017 at 4:11PM

park_ranger wrote: »

BTW who or what is 'the TOC'?

TOC = Train Operating Company.

pappa_golf · 15 September 2017 at 9:05PM

park_ranger wrote: »

Really appreciate the quick replies but this is all new to me and I don't really understand the subtleties of this.

When you say "they will decline indigo". do you mean that POPLa will decline to consider an appeal from me because it relates to Ingido and railway land (especially if I don't get a POPLa number from Indigo) or do you mean that POPLa will consider my appeal with or without such a number and will probably uphold my appeal and decline Indigo's claim for a penalty? In which case that's good news.

I'll have a read though the templates here to see if there is one I understand and that is relevant to my case.

BTW who or what is 'the TOC'?

any company legally registered with the BPA or IPC must offer an appeal system run by indipendent , as the land is non relivent an appeal will not be accepted by POPLa ,

no appeal , no further action

indigo will push it upto POPLa point then quietly decline in order to save money

Coupon-mad · 15 September 2017 at 10:46PM

Slightly worried about POPLA's comments about them not accepting new reasons for appeal at the POPLA stage that were not raised at the Indigo appeal stage though.

Ermmm...say what now? That's not true.

Have you submitted the template appeal for the NEWBIES thread yet, not filling an actual name in the boxes asking who was driving (obviously filling in the name of appellant though!), as covered in all other Indigo threads?

Does anyone know where these terms and conditions are so that I can make sure I am in accordance with them? The only T&C on their web site are the T&Cs for using their app or their web site.

Also does anyone know where a definitive list of breach codes may be found?

No need, none of that matters, just use the template appeal online, and put crosses in the driver's details boxes.

park_ranger · 16 September 2017 at 2:12PM

@Coupon mad
No I haven't done anything yet as I'm waiting for about 25 days to elapse before I send in the
first appeal to Indigo.

Re the 'new evidence' bit
It's in the last two paragraphs on page 7 of the POPLa 2016 annual report (I'm not allowed to post links so have reproduced it below)
where it clarifies various points with examples.. It gives as an example the case where someone appealed to the operator with one reason but then added another when appealing to POPL. POPLa would not consider the second reason.
I don't want to give the operator too much info and give them the chance to build a case but at the same time don't want to introduce new stuff at the POPLa stage - for example whether the operator has sufficient interest in the land anyway, or proof that they can legally act for the rtailway.

..........

quote from the POPLa 2016 annual report
"The operator’s evidence pack will respond to the reasons for appeal provided by the
appellant. This is one of the reasons we cannot accept new reasons for appeal after the
initial submission. If we were to do so, the operator would not have had an opportunity to
respond to the appeal reasons in its evidence pack.
The opportunity to comment on the evidence pack is therefore in relation to the initial appeal
reasons. For example, if the reason for appeal was that the signage at the car park was not
sufficient, and the operator sent pictures of the signs that the motorist did not consider
accurate, the motorist might want to comment on the evidence and would be able to do so.
We have seen occasions where an appellant has introduced new reasons for appeal in the
comments section. For example, the initial reason for appeal is that they were not the driver
– and when commenting on the evidence pack they say the signage at the car park is not
sufficiently clear. In such circumstances, we would not consider the new reason for appeal."

KeithP · 16 September 2017 at 2:18PM

That quote from the POPLA report is saying that after the initial POPLa appeal, the appellant cannot introduce new appeal reasons when commenting on the PPC's evidence pack.

Nothing to do with the initial appeal to the PPC.

where are Indigo's terms and conditions?

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