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  • FIRST POST
    • griffiths1971
    • By griffiths1971 14th Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    • 9Posts
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    griffiths1971
    Drink Driving / Accident and Recovery of Third party claim Insurance
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    Drink Driving / Accident and Recovery of Third party claim Insurance 14th Sep 17 at 11:32 AM
    I was convicted of DD on 7th September, after I crashed into a parked car on 12th August, I'd had a bad reaction to taking anti-depressant medication, and mixing it with alcohol, I have no recollection of the accident, and up until that point had never made an insurance claim & had always had a clean licence. I have been banned for 17 months, and received a large fine. My insurance company Sheila's wheels were informed straight away and I was told that my own vehicle was not covered (it was an old Zafira and only worth £325), but the other car would be covered by third party insurance. Yesterday I received a letter from them saying they were pursuing the full amount of the claim from me (the other car was quite a new Volvo and was written off), I am a single Mum, earning £22k per year. I just can't understand why initially said they would definiately not be pursuing the claim and then I receive this letter, with a Mandate of Indemity with it? Any advice would be very welcome please? How legally binding is this? Ive checked the small print of the policy and it says that they "reserve the right to recover all sums paid to any third party".
Page 1
    • Cotta
    • By Cotta 14th Sep 17, 11:35 AM
    • 2,750 Posts
    • 1,117 Thanks
    Cotta
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:35 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:35 AM
    If you are found to be drink driving your insurance automatically becomes void.
    • griffiths1971
    • By griffiths1971 14th Sep 17, 12:00 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    griffiths1971
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:00 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:00 PM
    If you are found to be drink driving your insurance automatically becomes void.
    Originally posted by Cotta
    I thought this was just your own car & not the third party claim from the other car owner
    • lewishardwick
    • By lewishardwick 14th Sep 17, 12:15 PM
    • 547 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    lewishardwick
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:15 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:15 PM
    Check the Terms & Conditions of your insurance policy.

    For instance, my insurer, Admiral, state the following:

    If an accident happens whilst you or any person entitled to drive under
    Section 3 of your current Certificate of Motor Insurance:
    Ÿ is found to be over the legal limit for alcohol or drugs
    Ÿ is driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs, whether prescribed
    or otherwise
    Ÿ fails to provide a sample of breath, blood or urine when required to
    do so, without lawful reason
    No cover under the policy will be provided and instead, liability will be
    restricted to meeting the obligations as required by Road Traffic law. In those
    circumstances, we will recover from you or the driver, all sums paid (including
    all legal costs), whether in settlement or under a Judgment, of any claim arising
    from the accident. See !!!8216;Your Car Insurance Guide!!!8217; General Conditions (11).

    Sorry!
    • lewishardwick
    • By lewishardwick 14th Sep 17, 12:16 PM
    • 547 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    lewishardwick
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:16 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:16 PM
    Maybe CAB can help. Also, you may need to consider a payment plan to clear the debt if they intend to pursue you.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 14th Sep 17, 12:21 PM
    • 2,275 Posts
    • 3,770 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:21 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:21 PM
    Maybe CAB can help. Also, you may need to consider a payment plan to clear the debt if they intend to pursue you.
    Originally posted by lewishardwick

    On £22k per year and paying for replacement of a brand new Volvo that's going to be some serious repayment plan

    But never mind - it's the fault of the alcohol/anti-depressant manufacturers
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 14th Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    • 3,809 Posts
    • 3,794 Thanks
    Retrogamer
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    I thought this was just your own car & not the third party claim from the other car owner
    Originally posted by griffiths1971
    That's right. They will still pay out to the third party but because you were willfully negligent then they can recover the costs back from you.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Sep 17, 12:41 PM
    • 36,286 Posts
    • 20,536 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:41 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:41 PM
    Your OP says they told you that they would deal with the third party (not that they would "definitely not" be pursuing you).


    If you were told "definitely" you would not be pursued then you may have grounds for complaint - when they told you that did they know about the court case you faced?


    Maybe your recent conviction has meant all previous discussions are now off the table!
    Last edited by Quentin; 15-09-2017 at 9:33 AM.
    • paddyandstumpy
    • By paddyandstumpy 14th Sep 17, 12:42 PM
    • 1,076 Posts
    • 535 Thanks
    paddyandstumpy
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:42 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:42 PM
    They will always ask for a recovery, but they will normally only push for a recovery if they believe you have means to pay.

    Don't bury your head on this and hope it will go away (not suggesting you would), but have a frank discussion with them and explain your financial situation.

    Fundamentally if they push for it and you can't afford it, if you declared bankruptcy (again, not suggesting you should!!) then they are no better off as they definitely won't get anything!
    • tenchy
    • By tenchy 14th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    • 360 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    tenchy
    On £22k per year and paying for replacement of a brand new Volvo that's going to be some serious repayment plan

    But never mind - it's the fault of the alcohol/anti-depressant manufacturers
    Originally posted by k3lvc

    You always get one, don't you? Isn't there some other forum or board where users can make sanctimonious remarks without bothering anyone else?
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 14th Sep 17, 1:30 PM
    • 2,275 Posts
    • 3,770 Thanks
    k3lvc
    You always get one, don't you? Isn't there some other forum or board where users can make sanctimonious remarks without bothering anyone else?
    Originally posted by tenchy

    Indeed and it's me this time - maybe if the OP hadn't tried to justify/explain it away I wouldn't have commented


    I'll take 'sanctimonious' over scraping body parts off the floor any day of the week
    • griffiths1971
    • By griffiths1971 14th Sep 17, 2:41 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    griffiths1971
    Indeed and it's me this time - maybe if the OP hadn't tried to justify/explain it away I wouldn't have commented


    I'll take 'sanctimonious' over scraping body parts off the floor any day of the week
    Originally posted by k3lvc
    I've certainly never tried to explain it away, I'm guilty & extremely remorseful, regardless of how out of character it is for me.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 14th Sep 17, 4:36 PM
    • 6,608 Posts
    • 6,476 Thanks
    eddddy
    Check the Terms & Conditions of your insurance policy.

    For instance, my insurer, Admiral, state the following:

    If an accident happens whilst you or any person entitled to drive under
    Section 3 of your current Certificate of Motor Insurance:
    !!!376; is found to be over the legal limit for alcohol or drugs
    !!!376; is driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs, whether prescribed
    or otherwise
    !!!376; fails to provide a sample of breath, blood or urine when required to
    do so, without lawful reason
    No cover under the policy will be provided and instead, liability will be
    restricted to meeting the obligations as required by Road Traffic law. In those
    circumstances, we will recover from you or the driver, all sums paid (including
    all legal costs), whether in settlement or under a Judgment, of any claim arising
    from the accident. See !!!8216;Your Car Insurance Guide!!!8217; General Conditions (11).

    Sorry!
    Originally posted by lewishardwick
    An insurance advisor recently told me that the Admiral group have especially harsh policy terms on this. He said that some/many other insurers don't have such harsh terms.

    I think he was making the point that not all insurance policies are equal - rather than saying that if you intend to drink/drive don't insure with Admiral!
    Last edited by eddddy; 15-09-2017 at 7:42 AM.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 14th Sep 17, 4:47 PM
    • 18,931 Posts
    • 13,113 Thanks
    molerat
    My insurer has no such clauses, the only one relevant to alcohol related exceptions is the personnel injuries section.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • rs65
    • By rs65 14th Sep 17, 7:29 PM
    • 5,351 Posts
    • 2,549 Thanks
    rs65
    ow legally binding is this? Ive checked the small print of the policy and it says that they "reserve the right to recover all sums paid to any third party".
    Originally posted by griffiths1971
    100% legally binding.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 15th Sep 17, 7:07 AM
    • 4,638 Posts
    • 2,898 Thanks
    csgohan4
    You always get one, don't you? Isn't there some other forum or board where users can make sanctimonious remarks without bothering anyone else?
    Originally posted by tenchy


    If the OP read the medication leaflet as thorough as the T+C on their insurance, it would say no alcohol to be mixed with it. The OP bothered themselves to be honest and trying understandably frantically to get someone else to pay for their mistakes


    Like with most things you get I life, you get what you pay for, Sheila's wheels being no different


    Hope you find a resolution to this OP, an expensive mistake and one which may make you uninsurable or financially prohibited to do so
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • Radfi
    • By Radfi 30th May 18, 11:36 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Radfi
    What was the outcome
    Hi would you mind sharing the outcome?
    My brother is in similar position and ssme insurance company
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 31st May 18, 7:01 AM
    • 20,513 Posts
    • 12,708 Thanks
    dacouch
    Hi would you mind sharing the outcome?
    My brother is in similar position and ssme insurance company
    Originally posted by Radfi
    Generally they will not pursue the matter if they discover their client does not have the money or assets for them to recover all or a significant amount of the money. It's a business decision as it's pointless spending thousands of pounds in legal and court costs if there is no chance of making a recovery.

    The citizens advice bureau is a good place to start.

    Post his details up eg exactly what happened as we may be able to help as the Insurer is relying on the contractual wording of their policy. If your brother situation does not tally with their policy wording they cannot make a recovery. For example I have seen a case recently where the Insurer tried this but the customer was not actually convicted of drink driving, the police officer had informed then Insurer the accident was due to the driver being unfit through drink but had been below the threshold for a conviction. As this did not allow the Insurer (To contractually) recover the money they had to drop the case.
    • Chickenlips
    • By Chickenlips 31st May 18, 9:05 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Chickenlips
    You may wish to get legal advice. Do you have legal expenses cover on your home insurance?

    They are legally entitled to pursue a recovery from you. What I would want to look at is the damage caused to the Volvo, the value of the work required, and the replacement value.

    You may wish to seek a copy of the third parties policy documents (should be on file). This will tell you if their cover is the normal type where the replacement value factors in age and use, or if it states new for old. I would expect it to be the standard wording.

    Compare the cost of replacement to the cost of repairs and decide if it was reasonable. Perhaps ask a local garage to provide a quote based on the damages listed.

    Whilst insurers can pursue a recovery against you, they can only recover fair and reasonable costs. If they have paid out based on a car of better condition (betterment) the additional costs would be ex gratia payments from the insurers and not your costs to bare.

    If the cost of repairs is exaggerated and/or it shouldn't have been a write off, you can try and settle for the repair costs.

    The above are actions insurers take when pursuing recoveries against eachother.

    It is worth seeing if you are able to do the same. They can't just send you a massive bill without justifying the costs.

    Whilst you probably can't get off of the hook, you can at least make sure you're only covering fair and reasonable costs and the level of cover insurers were contractually obliged to offer. If they went above the terms if the policy, the additional costs remain with them.
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