(Re-written for clarity) Court Summons for no car tax but couldn't tax car?
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Hi,
I am re-posting this question as I do not believe it was well received due the readability of it and lack of useful information. Hopefully this attempt on re-asking the question might be better suited to clarify my question and getting the feedback or answers that I would like.
In short, my question is if I should I plead guilty or not guilty for the offence of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle for the period of March 2016 to March 2017. If I plead guilty, I may be liable to a 33% reduction of ‘any’ fine and do not have to attend a hearing. If I plead not guilty, I will have to attend a hearing in person and my best estimated guess is that if I am found guilty ‘any’ fines go up rather than down.
The reason I did not tax nor SORN the car was that I was unable to do so since I did not have a logbook for it or a valid V5C number. I did not obtain my own logbook because up until this year as it seems I was not the registered keeper of the car. The best way I can clarity is give a timeline view below.
August 2015
I think I got this wrong in the original post, but after reviewing some documents I have clarified that I purchased the car at the beginning of August 2015. I bought the car from a ‘mutual’ friend on Facebook (someone I didn’t really personally know but had other social connections with). It was nothing out the ordinary car purchase, simply hand over money, complete documents, get V5C slip and drive off.
The tax laws had already changed meaning that new owners where required to purchase their own taxes for new car purchases rather than carrying on using the previous owners tax until it expired. So, I purchased tax for the car immediately by using the number on the V5C slip. With the new DVLA online system I opted to paying my car tax monthly.
November 2015
At November time, I become concerned because I did not receive a confirmation from the DVLA of being the new owner of the car or a log book for it. I contacted the seller who assured me that he sent everything immediately. After knowing this and due to already paying for my tax, insurance and so on for ‘my’ car lawfully I assumed to just wait a little longer and that the documents were still being processed.
January 2016
I made a mistake in January that resulted in me looking to attend court for a ban in 16th February.
February 2016
On the 16th February, I was banned from driving for 15 months. Due to the length of this time, I decided it was best that I got rid of the car. My insurance was still valid for another month, and coincidentally my monthly tax date was taken on the 16th of every month, therefore meaning I had car tax valid until the 16th March. I couldn’t drive the car myself due to the ban but my dad was insured on the car too. The plan was for me to either sell the car or scrap it. I was unable to SORN the car at my house due to the area being residential parking only, therefore public road.
I decided then to cancel the direct debit with my bank for the car tax. However, only after preparing what I needed to get rid of the car did I then realise I still had not received the logbook for the car. I contacted the DVLA and asked if I was the registered keeper of the car (in case the documents were sent out and I needed to request for new copies as I hadn’t received them) to which the reply was ‘no’. The woman who spoke to me from the DVLA instructed me that to get a logbook for the car I need to complete a V62 Form and send it along with the slip. After the conversation, I contacted the seller who was in total disbelief. At this point I would not be in my right mind to have any belief that the documents were indeed processing.
Before I sent the V5C slip, I wanted to tax the car again or at the very least SORN it as I knew my tax run out on the 16th March and if I didn’t get the logbook in time I wouldn’t be able to do anything with the car. My company is a massive warehouse and land-space so after enquiring with my boss if I could store the car there since it’s private property, I could legally SORN it. After confirming this was okay I attempted to re-purchase tax for the car using the same V5C slip. However, this number now did not work for whatever reason. I am not sure if was because of duration of time or if the number is intended to be used only once. I was not able to tax the car or SORN it using the number on the V5C, meaning I now had no means to do anything with the car.
March / April 2016
The seller now gets in contact with me because the DVLA contacted him about having a car unlicensed. He was supposedly told a court date and claiming he had to pay ‘some fee’s’. I told him I had already sent my V5C as I wanted to get rid of the car, and asked again if he was sure he sent the documents immediately. Once more he promised so and then we left it there. I never heard from him again.
January 2017
After a long stretch of time I got a letter from the DVLA of my car being reported abandoned and that it was unlicensed. The key here being that now the DVLA recognised the car was mine. I wrote back to the DVLA as required from the letter explaining to them the whole situation. I still received nothing, but was now confused as something must have happened for the DVLA to recognise I was the owner of the car.
March 2017
The DVLA tolled and crushed the car. No reply from the DVLA regarding their enquiry nor any documents for the car.
Now
I received the court summons that I am enquiring about now. Reviewing the documents, the vehicles mainfile enquiry sheet shows that the period I did drive and tax the car I was not registered as a new keeper (or at least that’s what I think ‘New Keep’ means on the table). After sending the V5C, I am not sure of what other actions I could have taken to get ownership of the car and documents to get rid of it. I honestly have no idea how suddenly the car was registered.
Soo the you have it, I hope I explained much as possible. Thank you for your time reading this and replies.
Questions
1) Based on my case, would it be better to plead guilty or not guilty?
2) If guilty or not guilty, what sources of evidence and support factors should I add to my case?
I am re-posting this question as I do not believe it was well received due the readability of it and lack of useful information. Hopefully this attempt on re-asking the question might be better suited to clarify my question and getting the feedback or answers that I would like.
In short, my question is if I should I plead guilty or not guilty for the offence of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle for the period of March 2016 to March 2017. If I plead guilty, I may be liable to a 33% reduction of ‘any’ fine and do not have to attend a hearing. If I plead not guilty, I will have to attend a hearing in person and my best estimated guess is that if I am found guilty ‘any’ fines go up rather than down.
The reason I did not tax nor SORN the car was that I was unable to do so since I did not have a logbook for it or a valid V5C number. I did not obtain my own logbook because up until this year as it seems I was not the registered keeper of the car. The best way I can clarity is give a timeline view below.
August 2015
I think I got this wrong in the original post, but after reviewing some documents I have clarified that I purchased the car at the beginning of August 2015. I bought the car from a ‘mutual’ friend on Facebook (someone I didn’t really personally know but had other social connections with). It was nothing out the ordinary car purchase, simply hand over money, complete documents, get V5C slip and drive off.
The tax laws had already changed meaning that new owners where required to purchase their own taxes for new car purchases rather than carrying on using the previous owners tax until it expired. So, I purchased tax for the car immediately by using the number on the V5C slip. With the new DVLA online system I opted to paying my car tax monthly.
November 2015
At November time, I become concerned because I did not receive a confirmation from the DVLA of being the new owner of the car or a log book for it. I contacted the seller who assured me that he sent everything immediately. After knowing this and due to already paying for my tax, insurance and so on for ‘my’ car lawfully I assumed to just wait a little longer and that the documents were still being processed.
January 2016
I made a mistake in January that resulted in me looking to attend court for a ban in 16th February.
February 2016
On the 16th February, I was banned from driving for 15 months. Due to the length of this time, I decided it was best that I got rid of the car. My insurance was still valid for another month, and coincidentally my monthly tax date was taken on the 16th of every month, therefore meaning I had car tax valid until the 16th March. I couldn’t drive the car myself due to the ban but my dad was insured on the car too. The plan was for me to either sell the car or scrap it. I was unable to SORN the car at my house due to the area being residential parking only, therefore public road.
I decided then to cancel the direct debit with my bank for the car tax. However, only after preparing what I needed to get rid of the car did I then realise I still had not received the logbook for the car. I contacted the DVLA and asked if I was the registered keeper of the car (in case the documents were sent out and I needed to request for new copies as I hadn’t received them) to which the reply was ‘no’. The woman who spoke to me from the DVLA instructed me that to get a logbook for the car I need to complete a V62 Form and send it along with the slip. After the conversation, I contacted the seller who was in total disbelief. At this point I would not be in my right mind to have any belief that the documents were indeed processing.
Before I sent the V5C slip, I wanted to tax the car again or at the very least SORN it as I knew my tax run out on the 16th March and if I didn’t get the logbook in time I wouldn’t be able to do anything with the car. My company is a massive warehouse and land-space so after enquiring with my boss if I could store the car there since it’s private property, I could legally SORN it. After confirming this was okay I attempted to re-purchase tax for the car using the same V5C slip. However, this number now did not work for whatever reason. I am not sure if was because of duration of time or if the number is intended to be used only once. I was not able to tax the car or SORN it using the number on the V5C, meaning I now had no means to do anything with the car.
March / April 2016
The seller now gets in contact with me because the DVLA contacted him about having a car unlicensed. He was supposedly told a court date and claiming he had to pay ‘some fee’s’. I told him I had already sent my V5C as I wanted to get rid of the car, and asked again if he was sure he sent the documents immediately. Once more he promised so and then we left it there. I never heard from him again.
January 2017
After a long stretch of time I got a letter from the DVLA of my car being reported abandoned and that it was unlicensed. The key here being that now the DVLA recognised the car was mine. I wrote back to the DVLA as required from the letter explaining to them the whole situation. I still received nothing, but was now confused as something must have happened for the DVLA to recognise I was the owner of the car.
March 2017
The DVLA tolled and crushed the car. No reply from the DVLA regarding their enquiry nor any documents for the car.
Now
I received the court summons that I am enquiring about now. Reviewing the documents, the vehicles mainfile enquiry sheet shows that the period I did drive and tax the car I was not registered as a new keeper (or at least that’s what I think ‘New Keep’ means on the table). After sending the V5C, I am not sure of what other actions I could have taken to get ownership of the car and documents to get rid of it. I honestly have no idea how suddenly the car was registered.
Soo the you have it, I hope I explained much as possible. Thank you for your time reading this and replies.
Questions
1) Based on my case, would it be better to plead guilty or not guilty?
2) If guilty or not guilty, what sources of evidence and support factors should I add to my case?
0
Comments
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From what you have put you would appear to be guilty.
Hindsight is wonderful but you really should have made more of an effort to get everything in order rather than letting it get to this point.
One thing that's not clear is where did the DVLA seize the car from? Presumably not your employer's warehouse.0 -
You're guilty. Basically you just couldn't be bothered to properly follow up anything, and as a result you're left with a hefty fine. Basically a tax on laziness and/or stupidity.
I'm sure you'll get very upset and defensive about this post, report it, and get it removed - but that won't change the truth, I'm afraid.0 -
So much of this makes no sense. Did you at any point receive a logbook?0
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Link to previous thread - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=57051940
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BeenThroughItAll wrote: »You're guilty. Basically you just couldn't be bothered to properly follow up anything, and as a result you're left with a hefty fine. Basically a tax on laziness and/or stupidity.
I'm sure you'll get very upset and defensive about this post, report it, and get it removed - but that won't change the truth, I'm afraid.
Is that what people do around here? Appreciate the honesty though.0 -
I appreciate your attempt to clarify your other thread which made no sense at all. Thank you.0
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Hi,
I am re-posting this question as I do not believe it was well received due the readability of it and lack of useful information. Hopefully this attempt on re-asking the question might be better suited to clarify my question and getting the feedback or answers that I would like.
In short, my question is if I should I plead guilty or not guilty for the offence of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle for the period of March 2016 to March 2017. If I plead guilty, I may be liable to a 33% reduction of ‘any’ fine and do not have to attend a hearing. If I plead not guilty, I will have to attend a hearing in person and my best estimated guess is that if I am found guilty ‘any’ fines go up rather than down.
The reason I did not tax nor SORN the car was that I was unable to do so since I did not have a logbook for it or a valid V5C number. I did not obtain my own logbook because up until this year as it seems I was not the registered keeper of the car. The best way I can clarity is give a timeline view below.
August 2015
I think I got this wrong in the original post, but after reviewing some documents I have clarified that I purchased the car at the beginning of August 2015. I bought the car from a ‘mutual’ friend on Facebook (someone I didn’t really personally know but had other social connections with). It was nothing out the ordinary car purchase, simply hand over money, complete documents, get V5C slip and drive off.
The tax laws had already changed meaning that new owners where required to purchase their own taxes for new car purchases rather than carrying on using the previous owners tax until it expired. So, I purchased tax for the car immediately by using the number on the V5C slip. With the new DVLA online system I opted to paying my car tax monthly.
November 2015
At November time, I become concerned because I did not receive a confirmation from the DVLA of being the new owner of the car or a log book for it. I contacted the seller who assured me that he sent everything immediately. After knowing this and due to already paying for my tax, insurance and so on for ‘my’ car lawfully I assumed to just wait a little longer and that the documents were still being processed.
January 2016
I made a mistake in January that resulted in me looking to attend court for a ban in 16th February.
February 2016
On the 16th February, I was banned from driving for 15 months. Due to the length of this time, I decided it was best that I got rid of the car. My insurance was still valid for another month, and coincidentally my monthly tax date was taken on the 16th of every month, therefore meaning I had car tax valid until the 16th March. I couldn’t drive the car myself due to the ban but my dad was insured on the car too. The plan was for me to either sell the car or scrap it. I was unable to SORN the car at my house due to the area being residential parking only, therefore public road.
I decided then to cancel the direct debit with my bank for the car tax. However, only after preparing what I needed to get rid of the car did I then realise I still had not received the logbook for the car. I contacted the DVLA and asked if I was the registered keeper of the car (in case the documents were sent out and I needed to request for new copies as I hadn’t received them) to which the reply was ‘no’. The woman who spoke to me from the DVLA instructed me that to get a logbook for the car I need to complete a V62 Form and send it along with the slip. After the conversation, I contacted the seller who was in total disbelief. At this point I would not be in my right mind to have any belief that the documents were indeed processing.
Before I sent the V5C slip, I wanted to tax the car again or at the very least SORN it as I knew my tax run out on the 16th March and if I didn’t get the logbook in time I wouldn’t be able to do anything with the car. My company is a massive warehouse and land-space so after enquiring with my boss if I could store the car there since it’s private property, I could legally SORN it. After confirming this was okay I attempted to re-purchase tax for the car using the same V5C slip. However, this number now did not work for whatever reason. I am not sure if was because of duration of time or if the number is intended to be used only once. I was not able to tax the car or SORN it using the number on the V5C, meaning I now had no means to do anything with the car.
March / April 2016
The seller now gets in contact with me because the DVLA contacted him about having a car unlicensed. He was supposedly told a court date and claiming he had to pay ‘some fee’s’. I told him I had already sent my V5C as I wanted to get rid of the car, and asked again if he was sure he sent the documents immediately. Once more he promised so and then we left it there. I never heard from him again.
January 2017
After a long stretch of time I got a letter from the DVLA of my car being reported abandoned and that it was unlicensed. The key here being that now the DVLA recognised the car was mine. I wrote back to the DVLA as required from the letter explaining to them the whole situation. I still received nothing, but was now confused as something must have happened for the DVLA to recognise I was the owner of the car.
March 2017
The DVLA tolled and crushed the car. No reply from the DVLA regarding their enquiry nor any documents for the car.
Now
I received the court summons that I am enquiring about now. Reviewing the documents, the vehicles mainfile enquiry sheet shows that the period I did drive and tax the car I was not registered as a new keeper (or at least that’s what I think ‘New Keep’ means on the table). After sending the V5C, I am not sure of what other actions I could have taken to get ownership of the car and documents to get rid of it. I honestly have no idea how suddenly the car was registered.
Soo the you have it, I hope I explained much as possible. Thank you for your time reading this and replies.
Questions
1) Based on my case, would it be better to plead guilty or not guilty?
2) If guilty or not guilty, what sources of evidence and support factors should I add to my case?
Imo based on above best plead guilty.0 -
A lot of people seem to think that cancelling their money direct debit is sufficient to cancel the tax on a car. You still need to tell dvla you have either disposed of the car or sorn it and remove it from the public roads.
OP did neither so is guilty of failing to tax the car it sorn it hence the court case. Plead guilty and cut your losses.0 -
Hi,
I am re-posting this question as I do not believe it was well received due the readability of it and lack of useful information. Hopefully this attempt on re-asking the question might be better suited to clarify my question and getting the feedback or answers that I would like.
I haven't read your post, but from my experience of this forum, it's not the place to get useful advice. The mods don't keep on top of things (I don't even know if there are mods) and so it's mainly a small group of rather bitter users who take a lot of pleasure in belittling people's posts.
I haven't read your original post or the repies, but I suspect the other forum members got bogged-down in some minor detail, accused you of lying, made out you were the bad guy etc. etc. rather than answering your query.
I would recommend posting this on another forum where you might get more sympathetic and balanced replies.0
This discussion has been closed.
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