IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Pay & display PLUS permit

Options
89y32ry987
89y32ry987 Posts: 8 Forumite
in Parking tickets, fines & parking
I parked in a car park and bought a pay and display ticket.

I didn't realise it was a car park for permit holders only. Before you are entitled to buy a ticket, you need to have a permit / register your registration with the car park operator.

The pay and display machine looked exactly the same, and the Pay By Phone app allowed me to buy a ticket and confirmed on my screen that "parking had started". Admittedly I did not seek out the sign and read it thoroughly to discover that I needed a permit as well, but the process for buying a ticket was exactly the same, and payment was accepted.

The app could easily have (1) highlighted that this was a permit holders only car park or (2) rejected my payment as it knows my registration, and could determine that my vehicle was not registered.

I was surprised to get a ticket, but there is no phone number to call, so I started the appeal process believing it had been a mistake, and parked in the same place the next day.

Obviously I got a second ticket.

I appreciate;

1. There were signs
2. I didn't have a permit

..but really?
«1

Comments

  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,033 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    edited 3 September 2017 at 12:48PM
    Options
    Welcome to scammers land of private parking.
    Read the newbies thread at the top of this forum.
    Which ppc is it?
    I don't know why you repeated the same mistake again.
    I don't know why you think a third part app would be that sophisticated .
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,268 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    This could get confusing. To buy the ticket you needed to have a permit therefore you were effectively trespassing and could not be given an invoice(fine). However you got a ticket to park using their system which should have stopped you before you started parking.
    What was the ticket(fine) for?
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    This is one case where the app undoubtedly breaches consumer law on distance contracts, not that POPLA understand that (if this was a BPA AOS member).

    Which PPC?

    Have you appealed both of these and blabbed about who parked/was driving in BOTH appeals?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • 89y32ry987
    89y32ry987 Posts: 8 Forumite
    Options
    The PPC is SIP.

    I repeated the mistake because I didn't realise I'd made a mistake. I assume the parking chap hadn't seen the ticket on my dashboard or something.

    I write apps for a living, so I expect them to be that sophisticated :-)

    I'm not sure if I still have the original fine - I think the description was vague. I'll see if it's in the pile of papers on my desk when i get home.

    Yes, I appealed both, and revealed my identity (believing I had nothing to hide).
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    89y32ry987 wrote: »
    The PPC is SIP.

    I repeated the mistake because I didn't realise I'd made a mistake. I assume the parking chap hadn't seen the ticket on my dashboard or something.

    I write apps for a living, so I expect them to be that sophisticated :-)

    I'm not sure if I still have the original fine - I think the description was vague. I'll see if it's in the pile of papers on my desk when i get home.

    Yes, I appealed both, and revealed my identity (believing I had nothing to hide).

    SIP get up to all sorts of scamming tricks ?

    As said above, how did the app allow you to buy a ticket if
    a permit was required first
    A flawed system and the courts don't like flaws.

    Surely as you paid by the app, you did so by card so
    you will have proof
  • 89y32ry987
    89y32ry987 Posts: 8 Forumite
    Options
    Yes, paid by card.

    And the app screenshot below that shows I still had 4 hours left when I got back to the car.

    flic.kr/p/Yt37kr
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    89y32ry987 wrote: »
    Yes, paid by card.

    And the app screenshot below that shows I still had 4 hours left when I got back to the car.

    flic.kr/p/Yt37kr

    So, you have the proof you paid.
    Next job is to take pics from all angles to show the signs
    are not clear

    Other question is .... you paid by app so the PPC will have your money
    Is there anything on their signs that says you have to pay for
    parking twice ???
  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,033 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    If the App is generic like Ringo and Pay by Phone etc they are just middle men that take the charge against a reference number for the site, and log the timings no more than that.

    They take the commission fee charged and laugh all the way to the bank, of course the permit clause is the PPC scam,

    SIP are members of the IPC so you are at the wait and see stage, if they try a claim you need to base your appeal on signage which must be awful or you would have known what to do, this really does seem like a honey trap.

    You should redact that image immediately it has too much info on it.
  • 89y32ry987
    89y32ry987 Posts: 8 Forumite
    Options
    ** From their perspective **
    The sign does say you need a permit (or to be electronically registered)

    * My perspective **
    Honest mistake
    The 'system' let me proceed
    Given they allow electronic registration (none of the other cars actually display a permit), they should be able to tell me that I can't park here.
    They app confirmed parking had started and gave me a count down
    They took my money (and still have it)


    Good point about the photo, I've deleted it and put this here for other users reference
    flic.kr/p/YtaA6T
  • 89y32ry987
    89y32ry987 Posts: 8 Forumite
    Options
    Oh, the Independent Appeals Service has already ruled in their favour.

    "Signage says you need a permit, and you didn't have one"
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards