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CCJ from BE Legal/Excel relating to incident in 2012

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1235713

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  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
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    Johnersh wrote: »
    These are of course all fact specific, but I reiterate where the emphasis should be, if your case suits that argument.

    Thanks Johnersh, you've been hugely helpful!

    I have tried to re-write section 1 to focus on this. I'm keen to keep an outline section 2 highlighting plausible reasons I could defend, if only because I have read cases on other forums where the judge was not satisfied with the "served to old address" argument but still set aside based on the "plausible defence" arguments. So good to have backup. I've worked to reallocate the legal detail to the exhibit attachment though as you recommend.

    Regarding the facts to support the argument - is what I have put in here adequate? Are there other sources of information I could cite? I've checked, and the insurance on the relevant car was registered at my new address from September 2013. I'm also registered at that address with HMRC for tax returns. Should I mention these too?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
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    I've checked, and the insurance on the relevant car was registered at my new address from September 2013. I'm also registered at that address with HMRC for tax returns. Should I mention these too?

    Yes I think so, even though the Claimant could not have accesses those, I think it paints an overall picture of a Defendant who was not trying to hide, had genuinely moved, and updated all parties you considered relevant, and was there to be found.
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  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
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    OK all, I'm nearly set to send off all the forms. Planning to send off tomorrow, just waiting on advice from a couple of offline friends with legal experience. Forms comprise N244 application notice, Witness Statement and 3 exhibits: (1. Council tax notices to confirm new addresses; 2. Announcement of consultation on measures to protect consumers from abusive pursuit of debt claims; 3. Sample defence).

    One further thing - I contacted BW Legal today to advise them of my intention to submit an N244 application and to request documents relevant to my claim. They told me I'd have to put in a written Data Subject Access Request and pay £10, and that releasing the material would take 40 days after receipt of that request. So I can't even get the material to defend myself without paying and waiting for months!! I'm inclined to add this information to my WS as it underlines how I am unable to get the information I need to defend myself. Is that a good idea?

    Thanks again for all the help so far. I'll be back for more advice when I hear details on the hearing etc
  • [Deleted User]
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    1. You don't need their files. Your case is that you never received any correspondence or documents. Why try and get them - they were (on your case) not validly served and cannot be relied upon. They will need to attend Court with them all if they plan to fight it. The delay will only defeat the suggestion you acted promptly.

    2. I wouldn't concede/regard your valid changes of address with the council, hmrc or insurers as untraceable. I regularly get process servers to "locate" Defendants. It's not even expensive. See, for example, here: https://www.vilcol.com/single-trace-instruction-form It is worth noting that address search costs can be as low as £35 plus VAT. There is NO excuse for using a 5 year old address.
  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
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    Johnersh wrote: »
    1. You don't need their files. Your case is that you never received any correspondence or documents. Why try and get them - they were (on your case) not validly served and cannot be relied upon. They will need to attend Court with them all if they plan to fight it. The delay will only defeat the suggestion you acted promptly.

    2. I wouldn't concede/regard your valid changes of address with the council, hmrc or insurers as untraceable. I regularly get process servers to "locate" Defendants. It's not even expensive. See, for example, here: https://www.vilcol.com/single-trace-instruction-form It is worth noting that address search costs can be as low as £35 plus VAT. There is NO excuse for using a 5 year old address.


    Thanks Johnersh - on 1. I agree - I wasn't going to put in a request or delay submission (sending off docs tomorrow) to get the files. I just wanted to note for the record that I sought information from them promptly and they refused to supply it promptly. Is that a good idea, in your view?
    On 2. Thanks - I have now amended to present a list of information sources where they could have easily traced me.

    Good to go tomorrow I think...fingers crossed!
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    edited 22 August 2017 at 7:23PM
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    I don't think it does any harm. Up to you whether you append it now or produce it at the hearing.

    I should also note that it is worth arguing that there is no reason not to incur the costs of a trace, because those costs can be added to their proceedings (they routinely add other costs for doing apparently very little) .
  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
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    OK, all documents sent off by email and in triplicate by post to CCBC this morning. First stage over *phew*.

    Just wanted to say thanks again to all on here who have helped me now and helped others before - I was in a right state on Friday and didn't know where to start. Would never have been able to get everything set up so quickly without the invaluable material here, and the kind forumites who have patiently answered all my questions.

    Will update you all when I get details of hearing dates. Will probably want more advice then!
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    Why in triplicate? You only send them one copy of the defence, they copy and send on...
    In future you send duplciates - court and claimant - and for the day you may want three copies :)
  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
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    Email with claim details from CCBC specified that "If you are sending your application via post please send 3 copies of your N245 or N244 Application." So I did that! (as well as emailing, covering all bases...)
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    Yikes, didnt realise that requirement was there. Electronic for the saving of paper - win :)
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