Excel / BW Legal - CCJ Issued: Set-Aside Fightback

iusedtoworkhere · 8 May 2017 at 11:34PM

Hi All,

I have an absolutely genuine but rather shambolic (my own actions included) case against a Parking Charge Notice, and would be grateful to anyone that can offer some expertise.

Location: Media City Car Park
Claimant: Excel Parking

On new years' eve 31/12/13 I parked at the above location visiting friends for the usual NYE hootnanny!
I purchased a 12hr ticket valid from 20:00 until 08:00 on 1/1/14.
Several hours (and beverages) later.. I returned to my car to purchase an extending ticket, knowing an 8am get-up might be tricky!
The second ticket was again 12hr, valid from 03:38 until 15:38 on 1/1/14.
So effectively covering from 20:00 on NYE until 15:38 on NYD.
I have the original tickets as proof.

I returned to my car around 12pm noon on 1/1/14 to find a Parking Charge Notice issued by the lovely people at Excel.
This made no sense, as I had bought and clearly displayed tickets covering me for several more hours.
The 'contravention' apparently occurred at 08:19 of the 1/1/14.

After receiving the original claim letters from Excel some months later, I went through the POPLA appeals process to clear up the matter.
Obviously a mistake had been made by the parking attendant and it would be cleared right away. Or so I thought...

Here's where it gets silly - I sent my POPLA appeal with a scanned copy of what I thought was the valid ticket... but accidentally sent the EXPIRED ONE instead!!!😂
Needless to say, POPLA rejected it - as it showed the expired ticket at 08:00 - instead of the valid one (until 15:38).
I went back via email to POPLA and tried to undo my stupidity over several emails, and was virtually ignored. Despite having concrete evidence, surely?
To make things worse, I admitted on my POPLA appeal that I was the driver - unaware that this evidence is seen by the PPC. :cool:

All around shoddy on my side, probably due to complacency.

Cue 3 years later, and various legal companies/debt collectors sending threatening letters - from the original (name escapes me but have records I need to dig out) to Zenith Collections and now BW Legal.
I took the MSE and Pepipoo general consensus after hours of fretted research, to ignore them indefinitely. Basically, don't make contact as they virtually never press court action.

Now I have a CCJ entered against me by BW Legal 7/4/17, having received a 'Claim Form' from County Court and one from BW Legal.

I only laid hands on the letters yesterday, having moved from my previous address.

There is also a subsequent letter dated 2/5/17 headed 'Judgement for Claimant (in default)' from County Court.
And another from BW on 3/5/17 stating 'A county court judgement has been entered against you'.
This says I need to pay by 1/6/17 or they will have to enforce the judgement by various undesirable means.

Up until this point I've been laid back about the whole thing, assured by the MSE/Pepipoo members who've been there.

Now I'm honestly quite stressed about the whole thing, unsure of whether I've now 'missed the boat' to defend myself. A boat that I was previously confident would float. Now however, given the situation, and with a first mortgage on the cards it would be a huge blow to lose my credit rating.

Just to reiterate, I have both the original pay & display tickets. Plus photos (from a distance) of both the expired and valid tickets on display, from the PPC's POPLA evidence.
Uncannily, they got a close-up photo of the expired ticket only, not the valid one sat just inches away on the dashboard...

I would like to know;
1) As it seems the CCJ is legitimate, what's the next step?
2) Has this been ruled against me in my absence, and I have to pay? (No letters telling me of a court hearing).
3) If it's not too late, how best to handle this?
- Contact the County Court, explain and send proof?
- Wait for a hearing (if it's not happened) and send BW Legal/Excel packing (with concerted research and preparation this time) on the grounds I have complied with their parking terms and can prove it?

Note: The above text is an edit from an email I sent to Parking Prankster yesterday, who is apparently now unable to take on new cases according to his auto-reply. I hope he gets whatever issue it is sorted, as anyone who takes on these shysters in such a manner deserves nothing but good things IMO.

Apologies for the 'War and Peace' but I wanted to clarify things as best as possible. 😊

Appreciate any help that can be offered.

Thanks.

Redx · 8 May 2017 at 11:42PM

I suggest you read up about set asides which can cost £255 unless you can convince the court to reopen the case (which has had a default judgment made already in your case)

see this thread for starters

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5645247

and

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5610260&page=2

and

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5636608

and

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5644807

there are plenty more you can read , with the same advice , plus post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum as well (its all here if you look)

Umkomaas · 9 May 2017 at 9:08AM

More reading on set asides etc.

http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/

http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/county-court-judgement-against-you.html

http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/set-aside-default-court-judgment.html

iusedtoworkhere · 9 May 2017 at 1:25PM

Thanks for the links Redx and Umkomaas.

I'll start to digest this lot later this evening. It did start to dawn yesterday before my post that a set-aside sounded like the stage I'd reached, though with limited free time and a lack of knowledge on these matters I appreciate the links.

Once I've understood the options and have a cohesive plan I'll update.

Can't bear the thought of settling the claim, on principal alone...

iusedtoworkhere · 15 May 2017 at 1:41PM

So after looking into all of the above threads and more on CCJ's, I now understand a bit more about the process.

Although there's now a few issues that might really hinder my chances;

1. I asked a friend to take pictures of the site and signage yesterday (as I now live miles away) but it's now a building site, so no luck. The pictures from the claimant's POPLA were taken with a poor camera and can't really read the wording, expect for the biggest fonts. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing in terms of arguing over signage, but I can't pick apart their compliance in the most part anymore.
2. As mentioned before, I unwittingly admitted to being the driver during my POPLA appeal. Excel have acknowledged this.

On the plus side, I don't believe the NTK was only issued a month later (a non-compliance on their behalf I beleive), and there was no PCN on my windscreen at the time. Here's my original post back in 2014;
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4899716&highlight=excel+parking+salford+quays[/url]

I know now that my options are:

a). Apply for a set-aside at a cost of £255, and should be successful initially with a well-prepared defence that has a chance of winning. Then I am back to the claimant wanting £100 and probably taking court action again. Then win or lose I won't have a CCJ on my record but may or may not be better off financially, results depending.

b). Pay-up. Avoid CCJ on credit score if paid by this month. Swallowing my pride and saving myself many evenings of preparation and time off work. Sometimes wise to 'pick your battles' for sanity, but at the same time these guys are a bunch of shysters and should be fought..!

c). Do nothing and await further action. Not really a good option, so let's discount that.

What I would like to know is, in light of the above points, does anyone feel I have a solid chance of winning and should persist - realistically?

I understand the defence is made up of many arguments such as liability, contract/agreement with landowner, compliance to signage/paperwork and so on. But just feel that I'd now have limited ammunition to make a solid case. Some of the main arguments are effectively nulled by my above points...

Don't mean to appear lazy or unwilling, but after 10+ hours reading, I'm still a total newb to this. And with the last couple of days unable to commit any time it seems an avoidable burden that might be better off just paid and done with. £270 for peace and no CCJ on my credit report (what BW want me to do), or £255 and a long process to maybe get my money back plus a bit in expenses.

Appreciate any thoughts.

waamo · 15 May 2017 at 2:15PM

Predicting the outcome of these cases is akin to predicting the outcome of the lottery frankly.

I've seen what appeared to be rock solid defences fail and seen really poor defences succeed so who knows.

If you had no paperwork from the courts that should get a set aside. Again it's not guaranteed though. It's a tough call and to be honest it's one only you can make.

Have a think about it though and don't rush into a decision today. Get a good range of opinions.

iusedtoworkhere · 16 May 2017 at 1:18PM

Thanks waamo.

It's interesting to hear your experience on strength of cases vs. results.

The paperwork was sent to my previous address yes, if that's what you mean. At which point the second letter with the default judgement had just arrived. I would have been straight onto forming a proper response to the Claim Form given the opportunity - though now with a £255 fee just to get the ball rolling it seems a much bigger task.

I have however just found electronic versions of their signage from the POPLA appeal evidence pack!

For one - it states 'this car park closes at 19:00' (06:00 - 19:00 more precisely).
So surely if I'd have unnecessarily bought a ticket (as it now appears I have), it would be valid from 06:00 onwards??
Or does that mean I'm not allowed to park within those hours? Although my NTK was for 'not displaying a valid ticket' - which was untrue as previously mentioned.

Back and forth in my mind over this now, found the evidence pack BUT admitted to being the driver.

waamo · 16 May 2017 at 2:55PM

If the signage is unclear and open to interpretation that's to your advantage. As a consumer it should be interpreted in your favour.

I think your case is pretty strong, that wordage is clear as mud to me.

iusedtoworkhere · 16 May 2017 at 9:49PM

That's an interesting point waamo, and one I would probably miss with my relatively newb knowledge level. Would be keen to see what a well-trained eye could make from what would appear to be a generic parking sign.

I've taken the liberty of uploading the signage PDF to Google Drive;

drive.google.com/open?id=0B3g5A7bESGhWUk8xVko4Z2NoSDg[/url]

You can read most except for the smallprint, which seems completely illegible...

iusedtoworkhere · 17 May 2017 at 10:38PM

So, looking at the most recent letter from BW Legal - it say's I have 14 days to make contact otherwise they can pursue other means. The 14th day is today.

It also says I can request that the court remove the CCJ if paid in full by 1st June. A quick lookup suggests it will only ever appear as 'satisfied' and will stay on record regardless. Surely not good news for my families impending mortgage! And it'll be the first one in my name...

Is it therefore right to conclude I need to fight this case, regardless of the questionable ethicalities of the whole situation?

The key thing for me is not to affect my mortgage by any noticeable means. Like anyone, I want the best for my family and financial security is high priority.

Paying the fine is secondary, I can afford being scammed as a one-off.. using some deposit savings..

I would also be grateful if anyone could advise on the best steps from now, i.e;

- How to contact BW Legal to put a stopper on further action? I presume email as there's a trail and it's instant? Need to be quick on this surely?
- How to respond to BW initially?
- Then, form a solid case to submit to the court. Use the many examples on here and elsewhere, tailor to my situation and post here for review. No problem.
- When to submit to courts?

Really appreciate any responses, I think this needs my full attention now. What seemed like an empty threat 3 years ago has put me in a horrible situation... so frustrating!!

Coupon-mad · 17 May 2017 at 10:48PM

Have you seen post #2 of the NEWBIES thread and the section near the bottom of the small claims defence info, about set asides, with examples?

Email BW Legal and keep a copy.

Download the N244 form you need (Google it). You must act quickly.

Read saggi's thread as he/she got a CCJ set aside AND the £255 fee refunded by the PPC - and their claim was struck out!

Excel / BW Legal - CCJ Issued: Set-Aside Fightback

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free