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  • FIRST POST
    • maily
    • By maily 18th Jan 17, 12:24 PM
    • 36Posts
    • 25Thanks
    maily
    Gladstones - Court Case - Need some Advice
    • #1
    • 18th Jan 17, 12:24 PM
    Gladstones - Court Case - Need some Advice 18th Jan 17 at 12:24 PM
    Good Afternoon,

    I hope you are all well and my apologies i wasn't keen on starting my own thread but feel it might be best to i have been trying to read through all the information here and put together a defense of my own but feel a bit lost so figured perhaps it is time at last to post my own thread and seek advice from some of you more knowledgeable and helpful folk.

    I have been a lurker here for many years and do appreciate all the advice and people on this wonderful site.

    I have been doing a lot of reading on here regarding parking fines and LBCC and Gladstones solicitors. I have read several of your letters/responses as well as some from Coupon mad. I am now more confused and lost than ever i am not a lawyer so am not to sharp on some of the Legal terms.


    To cut a long story short my wife borrowed my mothers car in August 2016 and used to visit a shopping centre (Privately owned). She paid for 2 hours Parking, and was 2-3 minutes late getting back to the car due to the little one needing a change of nappy but by the time she got back to the car there was already a ticket on there stating she was 10 minutes late and no parking warden to be seen.

    We decided to just ignore the ticket from Euro Parking Services and letters that followed.However eventually we received a "letter before claim" from Gladstones threatening to take us to court. We did respond in the time allocated and basically tried to come to a settlement i believe using one of your templates i saw on the site. I offered them a sum of 15 as the car park costs 0.80 per hour and as she was an alleged 10 minutes over i thought 15 was more than fair to cover their losses however it was rejected straight away.

    Gladstones they kept persisting eventually we gave up as i thought if this does go to court my mother won't do to well there and it's better to name the actual driver my Wife who might fair better in court. It went quiet for a few months and now they have sent my wife a dodgy letter before claim and demanding 150!!!

    The letter before claim doesn't follow the practice direction as far as i am aware it just demands money as it doesn't give us any further details.

    I was hoping you would be kind enough to offer some time/advice if you have the time to do so. We would both appreciate it eternally.

    I will take a picture of the letter they have sent us if that will help and upload it later?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and look forward to your advice i think in hindsight perhaps i should have started this thread sooner rather than try to cope with this on my own it's rather stressful!!!
    Last edited by maily; 04-10-2017 at 12:40 PM.
Page 4
    • Ricky R2D2
    • By Ricky R2D2 8th Oct 17, 2:17 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ricky R2D2
    Hi UKOMAAS

    Please can you point me in the right direction for the newbies. I have received a letter from Gladstones and they have threatened court action . I have made no contact with them whatsoever.

    Please advise.

    Many Thanks
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 8th Oct 17, 4:57 PM
    • 1,353 Posts
    • 2,712 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Hi UKOMAAS

    Please can you point me in the right direction for the newbies. I have received a letter from Gladstones and they have threatened court action . I have made no contact with them whatsoever.

    Please advise.

    Many Thanks
    Originally posted by Ricky R2D2
    No, that thread was staring you in the face before you clicked on this one... Which btw is someone else's thread about their own issue.

    Read the newbies thread then if you still have questions start your own thread.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 9th Oct 17, 11:51 AM
    • 2,140 Posts
    • 3,594 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    When the case was transferred to you local court (after you filed your DQ) you would have received a two-page order which set the date for the final hearing and which contained a timetable.
    It will have been headed "Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing).


    It will contain the court heading then numbered paragraphs which say that it's been allocated to the small claims track and that a hearing has been set for x date at x time


    Then it will say that the C must pay a hearing fee by x date.


    Then it will say that by xpm on x date each party must send to the court and each other copies of all documents they wish to rely on including the written statements of themselves and any third parties. It will say what form witness statements must take.


    This will be followed by wording about mediation and settlement and there may be an order that the Claimant has to make a trial bundle and what it must contain.


    Get your order out and have a look. What date did it tell you to file and serve your documents and WS by?
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 9th Oct 17, 11:52 AM
    • 2,140 Posts
    • 3,594 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Write to Gladstones and tell them they need to file a new WS removing reference to the WITHOUT PREJUDICE offer of settlement, which was clearly marked as such.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 9th Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 2,072 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Write to Gladstones and tell them they need to file a new WS removing reference to the WITHOUT PREJUDICE offer of settlement, which was clearly marked as such.
    +1. That's outrageous by Gladstones.

    The court may at the end of the case determine that it was not realistic, but it is absolutely inappropriate that such correspondence is referred to the judge prior to resolution of the primary issue.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 18th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    • 2,418 Posts
    • 4,310 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    I have received a letter today stating that there has now been evidence that Gladstones have paid the court fee and they have re-instated the trial date of the 17th?
    How did it go?
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • maily
    • By maily 20th Dec 17, 9:37 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    maily
    How did it go?
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Sorry i missed your messages and the few above been hectic with the newest addition to the family and work. Haven't really given this issue the time or priority needed.

    I did contact the landowner who no longer own the land and they asked the Parking company to cancel the ticket whom agreed to do so via e-mail but haven't done anything about it.

    So i am going to court tomorrow :-) I already have permission from the judge to be a lay-rep for my wife.

    IF i haven't filed a witness statement yet can i do so today or just take it with me?

    Any other advice/tips im a bit nervous now..
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Dec 17, 2:39 PM
    • 58,549 Posts
    • 72,051 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    IF i haven't filed a witness statement yet can i do so today or just take it with me?
    Oh no.

    Why on earth didn't you comply with the Judge's Order which gave you this date and required both parties to exchange witness statements and evidence (usually it says that on page two, requiring all parties to do that not less than 14 days before the hearing). It's there in black & white.

    You didn't even need permission in advance to be a lay rep, either (she must accompany you of course). Your eye has been well off the ball and for that reason you might struggle, as you will not be able to ambush them with any evidence at all.

    Oh dear again, this is not what happens when posters stick around and are coached by us including at WS and pre-hearing stage. Where did you go for months? You've done this on your own with no help, so sadly, on your head be it unless you get lucky or can turn this around NOW.

    URGENT:

    Your best bet is to file a quick WS and evidence and costs schedule (your wife's costs in attending) by email right now, before 4pm by email to Gladstones and in person at the court (hand delivered if they are still open & accepting mail this afternoon, don't assume their mailbox is open). If you are late, don't faff, email it to G's tonight anyway! No asking 'am I too late, may as well give up'. No, be proactive and hope for miracles, and make sure G's have that email from your wife, and print out proof of sending it in her name. Add it to your file.

    And I suggest you read up right this minute, on how to rescue a case using the Rights of Audience argument as you might not be allowed to use any evidence whatsoever, so your best bet is to do what Publican Paul did (he also forgot to do a WS until very late, but I coached him on what to take with him to get the rep kicked out - and it worked):

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113246

    Publican Paul filed his WS the day before - like you, ouch - and then went and won on no RoA.

    Do the same, get that WS in NOW NOW NOW, signed & dated as a statement of truth by your wife (not you), plus your wife's evidence & costs list.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-12-2017 at 2:43 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • maily
    • By maily 20th Dec 17, 10:18 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    maily
    Hey Coupon,

    Thanks for getting back to me. I got busy with work and the new baby and life in general took my eyes of the ball .

    I have sent my witness statement and evidence to court via e-mail as delivering by hand was just not possible as i was away for work and just got back now.

    The other reason was that i did contact the land owner who confirmed they no longer own the land and therefore they asked the parking company to cancel the action to which the parking company responded saying that it would be cancelled by them (7th december). I did attach this e-mail to the late witness statement i have sent over to the court.

    I will send over my witness statement and evidence to gladstones asap!!

    I kept the witness statement relatively straight forward with a statement of facts from the day and that is it and put some evidence in it at the bottom.

    Does it need a signature or is my wifes name printed across the bottom with the date alone enough?

    Also not sure what i need to do for a costs schedule?

    Trying to look further into ROA and what it means and how to bring it up.

    On the bright side i don;t know if it will help me but i did file a proper defense with the court ages ago but i am not sure if that defense alone will be enough.

    Oh no.

    Why on earth didn't you comply with the Judge's Order which gave you this date and required both parties to exchange witness statements and evidence (usually it says that on page two, requiring all parties to do that not less than 14 days before the hearing). It's there in black & white.

    You didn't even need permission in advance to be a lay rep, either (she must accompany you of course). Your eye has been well off the ball and for that reason you might struggle, as you will not be able to ambush them with any evidence at all.

    Oh dear again, this is not what happens when posters stick around and are coached by us including at WS and pre-hearing stage. Where did you go for months? You've done this on your own with no help, so sadly, on your head be it unless you get lucky or can turn this around NOW.

    URGENT:

    Your best bet is to file a quick WS and evidence and costs schedule (your wife's costs in attending) by email right now, before 4pm by email to Gladstones and in person at the court (hand delivered if they are still open & accepting mail this afternoon, don't assume their mailbox is open). If you are late, don't faff, email it to G's tonight anyway! No asking 'am I too late, may as well give up'. No, be proactive and hope for miracles, and make sure G's have that email from your wife, and print out proof of sending it in her name. Add it to your file.

    And I suggest you read up right this minute, on how to rescue a case using the Rights of Audience argument as you might not be allowed to use any evidence whatsoever, so your best bet is to do what Publican Paul did (he also forgot to do a WS until very late, but I coached him on what to take with him to get the rep kicked out - and it worked):

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113246

    Publican Paul filed his WS the day before - like you, ouch - and then went and won on no RoA.

    Do the same, get that WS in NOW NOW NOW, signed & dated as a statement of truth by your wife (not you), plus your wife's evidence & costs list.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Last edited by maily; 20-12-2017 at 10:47 PM. Reason: forget stuff
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Dec 17, 10:49 PM
    • 18,024 Posts
    • 28,551 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Also not sure what i need to do for a costs schedule?
    It!!!8217;s all in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2, which should have been your constant companion right through this process from start to finish. Ordinarily I wouldn!!!8217;t give easy links just so posters don!!!8217;t have to lift much of a finger to do it for themselves, but given your predicament - here!!!8217;s a !!!8216;one-off!!!8217;.

    Here is a costs schedule, you take this to the hearing and claim your costs for lost wages/leave, your travel, parking(!) etc. if you win:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72079752#post72079752

    You CAN claim loss of leave but some Judges do not know this, so have this up your sleeve in your notes in your 'costs schedule': ''27.14.2(e) a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for any loss of earnings or loss of leave by a party or witness due to attending a hearing or to staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing''

    If you have such a strong case that the Claim was VEXATIOUS, unreasonable and without merit, see this about claiming punitive costs, written by legally-qualified LoadsofChildren123:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72639343#post72639343

    and

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73593864#post73593864
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • maily
    • By maily 21st Dec 17, 12:15 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    maily
    Thank you both so much for your help today.

    I have sent gladstones copy of witness statement and printed an email proving this.

    I have a printed email from the landowner telling the parking company to drop the matter and the parking company confirming they will do so which was only done after the 7th of December.

    I have printed 3 copies of my witness statement and evidence incase i need to hand out.

    I have completed a costs form and printed 2 copies.

    I have a copy of practice directions showing i am allowed to be a lay rep.
    I already have all the other court paperwork we have received in the folder ready.
    I have a copy of my defense in there also.

    I don't think i have missed anything else hopefully.

    I have printed 2 copies of the gazette article and 2 copies of the McShane v Lincoln judgment to challenge ROA at the beginning.

    For the ROA what is the best to bring this up tomorrow right at the start and what do i actually say? "The person representing the claimant may not have rights of audience to represeng here today" and then handover the documents? Sounds silly but just trying to make sure i dont look stupid.
    Last edited by maily; 21-12-2017 at 12:32 AM. Reason: question
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Dec 17, 12:37 AM
    • 2,765 Posts
    • 3,442 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Ws must be signed
    • maily
    • By maily 21st Dec 17, 10:09 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    maily
    Of to court please wish us luck going to need it. Feeling a bit nervous now..
    • maily
    • By maily 21st Dec 17, 12:39 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    maily
    We won!!! Just about they didn't show up and the judge did their side paper based! He was a bit annoyed with my defense and was inclined to rule in their favour!!! But just about managed to win him over he seemed very fair and decent very happy. Thanks to eveyone here for all their help massive lesson learnt do more reading next time and prepare in a more timely manner.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Dec 17, 2:08 PM
    • 58,549 Posts
    • 72,051 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yay - well done!

    Did you win due to this:

    I have a printed email from the landowner telling the parking company to drop the matter and the parking company confirming they will do so which was only done after the 7th of December.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • maily
    • By maily 21st Dec 17, 5:41 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    maily
    Pretty much came down to that in the end so good very lucky and it goes to show always worth contacting the land owner!!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Dec 17, 10:30 PM
    • 58,549 Posts
    • 72,051 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    How did it go, can you do a 'court report' about how you felt, how come the Judge decided to 'act for the other side' who hadn't turned up?! What was said, which court, which Judge?

    We love full court reports and so do scared newbies.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • e231
    • By e231 21st Dec 17, 11:37 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    e231
    I'm a 'scared newbie' who is potentially facing court, and I too would be interested in your court report, to try learn a bit from your experience!
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