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    • lesleystrawson
    • By lesleystrawson 3rd Oct 16, 9:03 PM
    • 270Posts
    • 477Thanks
    Section S117 and aftercare
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 16, 9:03 PM
    Section S117 and aftercare 3rd Oct 16 at 9:03 PM
    Hi all - need some advice for my parents please.

    My nan fell in her home about 6 months ago - to cut a long story short, she was admitted to hospital, then over the next few weeks her dementia (which had been diagnosed by her LA as 'old age forgetfulness') seriously kicked in. She assaulted numerous staff and other patients at the hospital - she even had 4 security guards called to her room at one point she was so bad - and as a result was sectioned. She is 95.

    After a few months in the local mental health unit they managed to get her controlled using medication. She sleeps a lot of the time but she is now compliant - for want of a better word - and they looked after her really well. She has now moved to a nursing home in the LA next to hers (it is up the road from the mental health unit and the hospital) and has slowly settled in.

    The dilemma? Well, as she has been given an S117, this nursing home (specialists in dementia) is paid for fully by her local authority. However this nursing home resides in the neighbouring LA. According to my mum the representative from her local social services had a few heated discussions with my nan's consultant at the time at meetings about her aftercare before she was transferred into the nursing home. I guess the not unsubstantial costs were under debate.

    My nan has been at her nursing home for just over 2 weeks now and my mum has received a letter from Nan's LA today saying that they want to bring in their own people to basically check whether the S117 is still valid. I guess they have every right to check the validity of a diagnosis that they have been landed with the bill. However they obviously conceded to agree with nan's consultant at the time so we are a bit perplexed as to why they are challenging this so soon?

    My mum (who is 73) has found the letter to be fairly threatening with its suggestion that if she doesn't sign in and send it back within 10 days it appears they will go ahead anyway. Should she seek clarification from them first - she has found the letter quite confusing - or contact a solicitor? The carer in charge of my nan at the home has told my mum 'they do this all the time' but is pretty certain they won't get very far with my nan's case. Nice for him to say but no comfort to my mum who is worried sick.

    Any advice gratefully received

    'My father told me to go for it.
    So I went for it. But it had gone.'
Page 1
    • DomRavioli
    • By DomRavioli 4th Oct 16, 7:13 PM
    • 2,996 Posts
    • 5,129 Thanks
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 16, 7:13 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 16, 7:13 PM
    I would speak to a solicitor who specialises in geriatric care. There are plenty of them out there, and most offer a free half an hour.

    Best to get genuine information directly. You could also contact the LA who sent the letter asking under what legislation they are allowed to challenge a sectioning under the mental health act (ask for specifics), and speak to the mental health unit to ask their advice (as I am pretty sure they deal with this on a frequent basis).

    According to MIND, "The duty to provide aftercare services under Section 117 ends when in England, the clinical commissioning group (in Wales, the local health board) and the local social services authority are both satisfied that the person concerned is no longer in need of such services. The authorities can only be satisfied that the person concerned is no longer in need of aftercare services if they have monitored that person!!!8217;s progress in the community since discharge." (

    Sounds like theyre trying it on - the CCG has to be in agreement.
    • megc
    • By megc 18th Oct 16, 8:37 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 8:37 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 8:37 PM
    I would imagine one of the things the LA will want to check is whether your nan might be eligible for CHC funding, if her needs are nursing related. If so, it would be the responsibility of the CCG to fund her care as an LA is not allowed to fund nursing care due to a health need.
    It is normal practice though for a LA to assess the needs of somebody they are funding outside of their area, especially if, as it appears here, the placement was arranged from the hospital. They may also have a right to move the person back into their area, where they may have funding agreements with providers, although the family could have a right to appeal.
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