SEPA Payments from LLOYDS or other UK Bank

yessuz · 5 January 2016 at 2:43PM

Hi There,

Here's a question for you, guys:

Regulation (EC) No 924/2009 on cross-border payments in the European Community eliminates the differences in charges for cross-border and national payments in Euro. It applies to payments in Euro in all EU Member States. The basic principle is that the charges for payment transactions offered by a payment service provider (e.g. your bank) have to be the same, for the payment of the same value, whether the payment is national or cross-border.
The Regulation applies to all electronically processed payments, including credit transfers, direct debits, cash withdrawals at cash dispensers (ATMs), payments by means of debit and credit cards, and money remittance. Some conditions may apply depending on the type of a payment transaction. For example, for credit transfers and direct debits, the use of IBAN and BIC when ordering the payment, is obligatory.

http://ec.europa.eu/finance/payments/sepa/index_en.htm

Having this in mind, I want to make the SEPA money transfer to other EU country which is SEPA member. LLOYDS offer just a standard International payment, and they charge £10 for that.

As stated above, if I would do the transfer in EUROS as SEPA payment, they could charge me only for the Pound exchange to EURO, but they should not charge anything else, and treat it as local payment. It still should be much cheaper than £10.

But it seems I cannot find such option. looks like SEPA payments do not exists in LLOYDS internet banking system.

Has anyone sent such payment successfully, or knows which bank does that?
Or, in this case, if they breach the "law" - can we contact the Bank f England or similar institution with questions?

If I want to

KJSmith · 5 January 2016 at 3:02PM

yessuz wrote: »

Regulation (EC) No 924/2009 on cross-border payments in the European Community eliminates the differences in charges for cross-border and national payments in Euro. It applies to payments in Euro in all EU Member States.

If you made an international transfer in euros through your Lloyds Bank Internet Banking it would be sent as a SEPA payment.

Re-read what you've quoted. It's not a breach of the law for them to charge for payments in euros but not for payments in sterling.

Futuristic · 5 January 2016 at 3:04PM

You should also consider using a FX such as Transferwise as in most cases will be cheaper with much better conversion rates.

Recently sent £1000 to Germany, cost me £4.82.

yessuz · 5 January 2016 at 6:14PM

Well, that's the point. If bank transfers are free of charge within UK or Germany for that matter, SEPA payments and DirectDebits between two countries, in Euros, should cost the same. Banks are allowed to charge for currency exchange, but not for the international payments

yessuz · 5 January 2016 at 6:16PM

KJSmith wrote: »

If you made an international transfer in euros through your Lloyds Bank Internet Banking it would be sent as a SEPA payment.

Re-read what you've quoted. It's not a breach of the law for them to charge for payments in euros but not for payments in sterling.

Yes, that's the point! Even if you chose euro as the currency for transfer, LLoyds charge you 10£ and treats it as international payment, although it should not be like that! It should cost you exactly the same as any bank transfer within the country. In this case - 0£
And I cannot find the SEPA payment option

grumbler · 5 January 2016 at 7:16PM

A € transfer from UK to EU has to cost the same as a € transfer from UK to UK.
There are no any restrictions on the cost of a € transfer from UK to UK. Lloyds charge £10.
So, Lloyds can't charge more than ...... for a cross-border € transfer.

I leave it to you to fill the gap.

yessuz · 5 January 2016 at 7:41PM

grumbler wrote: »

A € transfer from UK to EU has to cost the same as a € transfer from UK to UK.

There are no any restrictions on the cost of a € transfer from UK to UK. Lloyds charge £10.

So, Lloyds can't charge more than ...... for a cross-border € transfer.

I leave it to you to fill the gap.

Interestingly, same issue was raised more than 10 years ago:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/4279801.stm

grumbler · 5 January 2016 at 7:55PM

I don't see why this is an "issue".
Having a separate currency has both advantages and disadvantages. You want to have advantages only.

Also, Brussels' bureaucrats are notorious for awkward results of their obsession with regulating everything. When going abroad we already benefit from roaming mobile calls from EU to UK that often are cheaper than normal mobile calls from UK to UK.

Hazzanet · 6 January 2016 at 7:32AM

This was brought up a while ago when Citibank offered BACS € payments for free within the UK, but charged a fee for SEPA payments.

Citi agreed to waive future fees for SEPA as they were not allowed to charge for a UK -> SEPA country € transfer if they provided a service for UK to UK € transfer for free.

Shortly after, BACS withdrew the BACS € service so the charge returned to SEPA as they were charging the same for UK to UK € transfers as UK > SEPA countries, which fell within the law.

This is an excerpt from their May 2009 reply to me:

All in all, Lloyd's are entitled to charge the fee.

yessuz · 6 January 2016 at 10:26AM

i see.

well, gladly there are other services which charge 1-2£ per transfer

haven't tried the Trasferwise, but used TransferGo few times.

however it would be great if Uk banks were sensible

eDicky · 6 January 2016 at 2:59PM

yessuz wrote: »

well, gladly there are other services which charge 1-2£ per transfer
haven't tried the Trasferwise, but used TransferGo few times.

The fee that banks and other services charge is not the only thing to be aware of. The exchange rate that they use for the currency conversion, eg GBP to EUR, is also very relevant.

Lloyds and other banks will probably be using a rate 3 - 4% lower than the mid-market or interbank rate, a substantial loss.

TransferGo, with its 99p fee, gives a rate that improves with larger amounts sent, but is still below the mid-market rate.

TransferWise charges a 0.5% fee and gives a rate very close to, if not actually, the mid rate. So it is one of the best value services these days.

Revolut can be used to transfer from GBP to your own EUR account or to pay someone else, (although it takes a few days), using the interbank rate and with zero fees. I now use this whenever possible.

SEPA Payments from LLOYDS or other UK Bank

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