The Ghost of Drive Assist, unrecoverable charges... 3 years after accident!(HCS, MTA)

Waking_Up · 27 October 2015 at 1:13AM

Good evening,

Apologies if this has been done to death, but after searching through the forum for past threads I can't find one that quite addresses this. Please feel free to sign post me to an existing thread if you are aware of one.

I am writing on behalf of my partner. In November 2012 (almost 3 years ago!) his car was rear ended by another vehicle, the driver of which immediately admitted liability. Partner's insurance company made a referral to Drive Assist who supplied him with a credit hire vehicle for 18 days while his own car was repaired.

Partner, who is the most cautious and discerning (read shrewd and generally suspicious) would never knowingly have signed a credit hire agreement, had he known there was even the slightest chance he would be liable for costs, was blissfully unaware of the "credit hire" aspect of this arrangement (he recalls being assured the car came at no extra cost and would be paid for by the third party's insurers) until the other day when a letter from HCS (Hamilton Claims Solutions) arrived in the post.

HCS claim to have been appointed to recover outstanding charges from the third party insurers on behalf of DRA Realisations who have taken on all of Drive Assist's unsettled claims costs since their liquidation in 2013. They regret that, despite their best efforts, they have been unable to recover the costs incurred by Partner's credit hire agreement from the third party insurers, and so will be passing "the file" on to one of their panel solicitors; MTA Solicitors, and urging his full cooperation in their "legal recovery process".

This letter also came with a copy of the original credit hire agreement, with Partner's signature, copied and pasted over 4 different sections from a the PDA used at the time of delivery, as well as a pretty aggressively worded document outlining the many steps which DA agents supposedly go through to ensure complete transparency and client agreement, written with the presumption that the no-fault party is challenging the validity of the credit hire agreement, basically saying "Look, this is how we do it, you've got no leg to stand if you think it went differently", followed by a cautionary reference to credit hire case law.

Cue letter from MTA Solicitors, again urging full cooperation "as without it we will have difficulty recovering on your behalf the charges you have incurred and have agreed to pay Drive Assist". They advise Partner to sit tight and wait for a telephone interview and a further letter.

Partner, who suffers with an anxiety disorder and depression, so finds this completely overwhelming, is adamant that he was told that the car was offered at no extra charge to him, as it would be paid for by the third party insurers.

What to do?
Are they acting with Partner's best interests at heart?
Should we get independent legal advice and / or representation?
Should we engage with MTA Solicitors at all?

I would so appreciate any thoughts or advice about this!

TIA

dacouch · 27 October 2015 at 7:10AM

Have they actually said they want your partner to pay the hire costs or are they saying they want your partner's assistance to enable them recover the costs from the third party?

Waking_Up · 27 October 2015 at 8:45AM

Good morning,

Thank you for your swift response.

They are asking him to assist them in their efforts to recover the charges.

The web is full of informative tales of people dealing directly with DA prior to their demise, but I can't find any accounts of anyone approached by solicitors in this way and what happened. I don't think we would have worried too much were it not for the tone of the letters and the attached documentation. Superficially, it is asking for assistance with a recovery process, with a heads up that it is likely to go to court, but the subtext seems very much about getting him to understand that the final liability for the charges lie at his door, and backing this up with what looks like photocopies of DA in house training materials, outlining the futility of contesting their credit hire agreement, complete with references to case law. Just seems odd to include this, stapled to the back along with a copy of a credit hire agreement which Partner is certainly he has never seen or signed (although this seems to be a common story since the introduction of PDAs). It just doesn't fill us with confidence that their representation is straightforward. Oh dear.

Must stop, I'm rambling!

Tillyboo · 27 October 2015 at 7:12PM

Hi
I am so pleased I found this thread ! I am in the same position and have had threatening letters/ calls for months from Mta and hcs . I feel I'm being bullied into agreeing with what they say even though I only signed once for collection of the car but according to them, when I signed the machine I agreed they could transfer my signature . I would never agree to that . I don't know which way to turn as legal advise isn't cheap! I have requested some form of immunity and been refused as they say they probably won't Persue me . Oddly enough the MD of HCS was previously connected with drive assist ?
Help 😭

dacouch · 27 October 2015 at 9:32PM

When you take a credit hire vehicle (Which is a hire car at an inflated price) you sign a credit agreement saying you will pay the costs in (normally) twelve months time.

The CH company than ask the other drivers Insurers to pay the costs and due to the huge cost of these vehicles and the CH companies often putting people who do not need a CH into an expensive hire car. The result being the other Insurers have a habit of arguing about whether a car was needed / and the total costs.

The credit agreement you signed is part of the process as for the CH company to be able to loan you a car (At an inflated cost) they need to show in law that you have incurred the cost.

Now days CH companies tend not to pursue the hirers of the vehicles for their costs, any costs not recovered are generally written off.

The documents you signed when you were given the car agree that you will give the CH company all reasonable assistance to help recover their costs eg if it goes to court you agree to attend if necessary and / or provide a statement and / or evidence. They typically ask you confirm / prove you needed the vehicle and you could not afford to finance the normal costs of a hire car from say Hertz out of your own pocket.

They do however pursue the hirer if a) You lied to them about the accident eg you said someone had driven into your rear when in reality you drove into someone else's rear or b) You do not assist them in pursuing their costs from the other driver.

The solution is for you to contact them, ask them to explain the situation and ask them to confirm whether providing you help them and they still lose the court case whether they will pursue you.

Note if they're in liquidation, the liquidator may adopt a different tact to when they were trading properly. This is because they may see you as a debtor if they lose the case and ask you for some or all of the money.

So get it contact with them and find out whats happening

OnanTheBarbarian · 27 October 2015 at 10:16PM

Does the rental agreement contain a notice of cancellation / cooling off period? If it doesn't (which some credit hire agreements around that time failed to have) the agreement is worthless meaning the insurer of the third party will challenge the enforceability of the agreement to defeat the claim. Plus that would protect your partner as the agreement would also be unenforceable against him.

Oh and everything Dacouch said if it does have a cancellation notice

Waking_Up · 31 October 2015 at 2:04AM

Good evening,

Thank you very much for your responses to my post, and apologies for being so slow to get back to the thread. The half-term break got in the way. I do appreciate the time you put in to advising me (and I am so sorry you are also going through this, Tilly), it is so easy to feel confused and powerless.

Onan, there was a Notice of Cancellation, and a very thorough one too, but thank you for the brainwave.

My partner sought some independent legal advice earlier in the week and received the discouraging view that the case would likely hinge on whether or not he could prove that he did not have enough money at the time to cover the cost of an independent car rental. Now if there is one thing he almost certainly has got covered from all angles it is his money, knowing this to be a potential trigger for anxiety, so he would most definitely have had enough savings, being a keen "hobby saver", to pay for say a Hertz hire car. It just makes it more absurd; his insurance policy included cover for a courtesy car anyway, so why his insurers saw it fit to make the referral to Drive Assist instead of just offering him what he had already paid for is baffling, and secondly, you would think that if the issue of insufficient funds was such an important part of the criteria, there would be some kind of mention of it somewhere.

My partner has now followed your advice, Dacouch, and contacted MTA Solicitors directly to try to ascertain exactly what is expected of him, how these cases have been panning out so far and what he can expect, but they are being very non-committal and won't be drawn on specifics, simply suggesting he waits for their next letter to arrive in the post, as it will apparently make everything clear. It makes me fume, this kind of thing is stressful for most of us, but boy, try dealing with it with severe anxiety. Grr.

Thank you again for your time and insights!

dacouch · 31 October 2015 at 7:54AM

Provided he did not lie to DA about his financial position that does not present a problem.

It's upto DA to check he could not have afforded to finance the car himself

Waking_Up · 3 November 2015 at 2:16PM

Thanks again, Dacouch, that is very interesting. We're just sitting tight now, waiting for the next installment.

OnanTheBarbarian · 3 November 2015 at 5:42PM

Don't be concerned with the fascination of showing if you were capable of paying for hire yourself.

This is not to say you should have paid for a hire car and then claimed the charges back. It is the test used to determine what rate the insurers of the fault party should pay back to the hire co. Usually you get asked to show bank statements etc. If you have a nest egg and would not suffer any real hardship if some of it went missing for a few months, then the third party insurers can argue they only have to pay the BHR (basic hire rate) for an equivalent vehicle at the cheapest rate, rather than the credit hire rate.

If perusal of bank statements etc shows the person hiring the car was of limited means, then the full credit hire rate should be recoverable.

Bottom line is just co-operate with the appointed reps of Drive Assist and there is very little chance of any comeback.

Waking_Up · 16 November 2015 at 2:59AM

Thank you, Onan. That is reassuring. Last week we received the letter from MTA Solicitors which Partner had been told to look out for. I really understand why Tilly upthread referred to the correspondence as threatening. (Tilly, if you are still around, I would love to know what's happened for you, down the line as it were. I shudder to think it'll be months,like you say...) The tone of the letter is appalling; "our" representative introduces himself as a "grade D fee-earner", whatever that is, and proceeds to say that at this stage, legal fees look set to come to £5000 + VAT, with additional charges for any further phone calls or correspondence. It does state that these fees will be absorbed by a company called Insolvency Ventures UK, providing Partner hurries up and signs the contract stating he will assist with the recovery process of credit hire fees from third party insurers and reaffirms his ultimate liability for said credit hire charges. In a bizarre twist, Partner followed a suggestion in letter to contact Insolvency Ventures UK for clarification and ended up speaking with the chap whose company it is. He was apparently friendly and reassuring, reiterating the requirement to assist with the solicitors' efforts, although he did say that MTA's fees seemed excessive.
The long and short of it is that it is hard to get away from the impression that these people are legal mercenaries who really do not give two hoots about the absolute havoc being wreaked in our family and the impact thereof. And to anticipate months of it... Grr.

The Ghost of Drive Assist, unrecoverable charges... 3 years after accident!(HCS, MTA)

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