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Fighting a PCN when a lease company is the registered keeper

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usedtobefaster
usedtobefaster Posts: 17 Forumite
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in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi,

I've read the newbie's posting and looked at the flowchart regarding fighting a PCN and the term "registered keeper" is used, particularly regarding the appeals template. The car that is involved is a company car and therefore the registered keeper is the lease company.

Does the appeal have to come from the registered keeper (Leaseplan in the case) or can it come from the main driver?

Thanks
Paul
«13

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  • Mike172
    Mike172 Posts: 313 Forumite
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    You appeal as normal, but your POPLA case cant include the part about no keeper liability, POFA......

    Do you have a windscreen ticket or has your lease company or company received the notice to keeper?
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  • bazster
    bazster Posts: 7,436 Forumite
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    usedtobefaster wrote: »
    Hi,

    I've read the newbie's posting and looked at the flowchart regarding fighting a PCN and the term "registered keeper" is used, particularly regarding the appeals template. The car that is involved is a company car and therefore the registered keeper is the lease company.

    Does the appeal have to come from the registered keeper (Leaseplan in the case) or can it come from the main driver?

    Thanks
    Paul

    What parking company, and what stage are you at? Have you received a Notice to Driver (toilet paper stuck to the windscreen), or has the lease company received a Notice to Keeper in the post?

    "Keeper liability" as provided for in POFA 2012 Schedule 4 applies to the de facto keeper of the vehicle, not the registered keeper. The registered keeper is presumed to be the keeper unless proven otherwise, but in the case of a leased/company car it's clear the registered keeper is not the de facto keeper, therefore all appeals can come from the de facto keeper rather than the registered keeper.

    Unfortunately, despite having no liability, lease/hire companies have a nasty habit of simply paying these things and then charging the lessor/hirer, plus a hefty admin fee. Hence if you have received a Notice to Driver we usually advise appealing now (which you can do as the keeper rather than the registered keeper) rather than waiting for a notice to be sent to the lease company.
    Je suis Charlie.
  • usedtobefaster
    usedtobefaster Posts: 17 Forumite
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    Hi,

    The parking company is Highview Parking and it was a car park in Bromley (it was the wife and I wasn't there so please don't ask which car park).

    I've received notice via a PDF document from the lease company.

    I'm at the start of the process as I received the document this morning.

    On a second reading of the letter from the lease company it appears they have a procedure if a driver wants to appeal a PCN - they even have an email address for appeals to be conducted through.

    I suppose my next question is do I send the appeal directly to the parking company or the lease company and they pass it on?

    Thanks
    Paul
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,462 Forumite
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    edited 5 February 2015 at 1:32PM
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    usedtobefaster wrote: »
    Hi,

    The parking company is Highview Parking and it was a car park in Bromley (it was the wife and I wasn't there so please don't ask which car park).

    I've received notice via a PDF document from the lease company.

    I'm at the start of the process as I received the document this morning.

    On a second reading of the letter from the lease company it appears they have a procedure if a driver wants to appeal a PCN - they even have an email address for appeals to be conducted through.

    I suppose my next question is do I send the appeal directly to the parking company or the lease company and they pass it on?

    Thanks
    Paul


    Appeal as keeper direct to the PPC so you don't miss out on any deadlines. Write/email to the lease company telling them you are doing this and that therefore they are absolved of any liability and do not need to get involved any further.


    Use all the appeal points in the appeal template from the NEWBIES thread unless one of the experts here tells you otherwise.


    It would appear that the lease company have got their act together and not paid this for you. It wouldn't hurt to tell them you appreciate that even though their trade body, the BVRLA tells them they should. Not all lease/hire companies are that savvy.
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  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
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    Fruitcake wrote: »
    Appeal as keeper direct to the PPC so you don't miss out on any deadlines. Write/email to the lease company telling them you are doing this and that therefore they are absolved of any liability and do not need to get involved any further.

    It would appear that the lease company have got their act together and not paid this for you. It wouldn't hurt to tell them you appreciate that even though their trade body, the BVRLA tells them they should. Not all lease/hire companies are that savvy.

    Absolutely this. Let the lease co know it is in hand, and also give them a pat on the back. (Softly softly catchee monkey). :)
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    edited 5 February 2015 at 6:11PM
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    usedtobefaster wrote: »
    Hi,

    I've read the newbie's posting and looked at the flowchart regarding fighting a PCN and the term "registered keeper" is used, particularly regarding the appeals template. The car that is involved is a company car and therefore the registered keeper is the lease company.

    Thanks
    Paul

    the template makes NO MENTION of registered keeper, just keeper

    I could have been the driver , you are the keeper, so appeal as keeper

    the bottom of post '#1 of the sticky thread also deals with leased cars as well

    try to get the responsibility names into your head as there can be several

    the owner of the car could be a finance company or similar

    the lease company could be the RK (or keeper if owned by a finance company)

    you are the keeper on day to day running

    you could be the driver, there could be several drivers, it could have been me driving at the time

    so use the word keeper

    the point is to get them coming after YOU as keeper, keeping the owners/registerd keepers/leasing company out of it
  • bazster
    bazster Posts: 7,436 Forumite
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    All of this ^^^^^
    Je suis Charlie.
  • usedtobefaster
    usedtobefaster Posts: 17 Forumite
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    Re the lease company, it does look like my company uses a good one w.r.t. not simply paying the PCN and then claiming back from the driver.

    So from the post it appears the best word to use in the appeal letter is simply "keeper".
  • usedtobefaster
    usedtobefaster Posts: 17 Forumite
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    Before I submit the appeal to the PCN the part I'm not sure on is

    d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.

    what does this mean, and should I leave it in the appeal document or not? In the thread Mike172 indicates that the POFA part can't be included in the POPLA appeal, is this also true for the first stage of the process?

    Thanks
    Paul
  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
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    If you're unsure then simply delete it. But it really doesn't matter for the first appeal to the PPC - they probably won't read it anyway.
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