UKCPS PCN Disabled BB Holder

LeeS2013 · 23 October 2013 at 12:47PM

Hello,

I have been reading quite a bit on this and also posted on the pepipoo forums but I have had mixed suggestions of what kind of appeal to send. I was hoping you might be able to advise the best route to go down.

My parent is disabled and holds a blue badge obviously I am aware this is not legally required to be shown on private land but usually they would put it up regardless out of habit.

On this occasion UKCPS have sent a NTK PCN are saying the valid badge was not displayed, no pictures were provided as usual so I can't confirm or deny that.

The car is registered to my parent so has an exempt tax disc.

I have been to the carpark myself to day and in my view there is not a sign within a reasonable position where he parked, also the signs state "a current valid dissabled badge" says nothing about the type of badge. The car park is also free, though they claim a maximum stay of two hours.

My dilema is after reading the advice on here, I would have though the best response would have been a short appeal demanding the POPLA number.

However other I advice I recieved suggested a polite appeal telling them that it was an accident that the badge was not displayed and stating I have been informed they look kindly on these cases.

I am assuming this is not a wise idea and that everything should be kept third person and no fault should be admitted?

I would appreciate any advice you can give.

Coupon-mad · 23 October 2013 at 3:08PM

However other I advice I recieved suggested a polite appeal telling them that it was an accident that the badge was not displayed and stating I have been informed they look kindly on these cases.

Nope, not with UKCPS. That would be the right advice ONLY in a Council ticket situation.

Personally I would send a strong appeal to UKCPS as they have thrown in the towel a couple of times when faced with a really robust challenge. Have a look on other UKCPS threads to try to find an example.

Easiest way to read the new UKCPS threads on here and on pepipoo in one hit would be to search Google for the words:

'UKCPS address the factual issues'

...because those are the words in one of their recent letters. Do read the results as you will learn about and be ready for UKCPS' reply!

Have you got a yellow/white NTK? What exact wording is on your version under 'Appeals Procedures'? It's just been changed on UKCPS NTKs and one version is bad but the other is TERRIBLE, and can be used to force their hand to cancel...:cool:

LeeS2013 · 23 October 2013 at 3:44PM

Hi Coupon,

Thanks very much for your response.

Regarding the NTK yes my parent has received one, the exact wording for the Appeals is as follows:

"Appeals Procedures In the first instance you should appeal to ourselves, via writing to the address above. Appeals should be sent within 28 days of receipt of this letter. Tickets will be placed on hold until your appeals is heard. If your appeal is rejected then you may appeal to POPLA (the independent appeals service) details of which will be sent."

The NTK is only a few days old so I assume it is their latest version.

I managed to take a snap shot of the entrance sign today, it says the following:
Name of the Retail Park
"#### ##### ###" (not at all important to this case)
"Please see signs for details" (at the bottom in notably smaller text)

Edit; I also found out who owns the retail park a group called Canada Life Ltd, though I am still working out the best person to contact there regarding the matter.

LeeS2013 · 24 October 2013 at 4:33PM

[FONT=&quot]Having read a number of threads over the last few days I have pulled some pieces together which I believe will be sufficient for a strong first appeal, in particular this being based on the lack of clear entrance signage and the lack of signs where the car was parked in breach of the BPA code of conduct (which can in turn place them in breach of one of the consumer protection acts).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And the fact the car park is free and was used for the purpose of using the shops in the retail park, thus there was no possible loss to the landowner or UKCPS and no proof of loss has been provided placing them in breach of 2 acts since the charge is basically a penalty.

I should note that the nowhere on the entrance sign are UKCPS mentioned and the "Please see signs for details" section relates to the previous statement which is un related to people who are going to the retail park to shop there.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Obviously if I could add anything about the Appeals Procedures that would help too…
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If it is reasonably safe to do so I will post the appeal here so you can take a look, obviously I will remove any identifying details first.

I have also attempted to contact the national store chain which my parent was visiting and parked outside of on the day in question, via social media in hope they take notice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks again for your help.
[/FONT]

spacey2012 · 24 October 2013 at 4:38PM

First thing is do not beleive a single word these scammers have said.
Do not take the part about no badge onboard.
It was displayed, like you say it always is, the "warden" decided he could not see it and needed to fill his quota of tickets.

Coupon-mad · 24 October 2013 at 4:42PM

Obviously if I could add anything about the Appeals Procedures that would help too…

Well that's their latest version but it still has a few 'problems'! Am I right in saying it does not state the period of parking? Non-compliant NTK then!

Did it arrive between day 29 and day 56 if they are saying there was an initial windscreen PCN? If no windscreen PCN, did it arrive within 14 days after the incident?

And I have posted a few links for you on pepipoo at silly o'clock last night (I post as SchoolRunMum on pepipoo):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=84579

HTH

P.S. At the moment I wouldn't show your draft appeal here as UKCPS look at this forum. And my pm box is full atm because I have a lot on my plate following a bereavement, so I can't offer private message help. But TBH it doesn't matter too much what you say, you are after a POPLA code or cancellation - either way you are in a win-win situation as long as you word the challenge from the registered keeper ONLY - not naming the driver.

LeeS2013 · 24 October 2013 at 7:07PM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well that's their latest version but it still has a few 'problems'! Am I right in saying it does not state the period of parking? Non-compliant NTK then!

Did it arrive between day 29 and day 56 if they are saying there was an initial windscreen PCN? If no windscreen PCN, did it arrive within 14 days after the incident?

There is nothing about the period of parking on the letter, only the time they took a "picture" and the fact they claim the car was parked "in a disabled bay without valid badge displayed", frankly with that wording I am wondering if a birthday age badge would have counted.

There was no windscreen PCN just the NTK and it arrived within 14 days of the alledged incident... one more day and it would have been late.

And my condolances on your loss, I noticed you talked about it in another thread, you do this out of the kindness of your heart so all your help whatever that may be is greatly appreciated I can assure you. And thank you for the links in the other thread they will come in handy for expanding my appeal a bit more with some additional information.

Also thank you spacey, my parent was fairly certain that the badge was indeed in place so it would not shock me if this "photo" evidence is taking at a strange angle or such.

Magicaldebs · 24 October 2013 at 7:36PM

We have just had two successful appeals which are in a very similar vein to your parents. I didn't enter into any sort of discussion regarding the Blue Badge, its enough that you have a Blue Badge, because BPA regulations are on your side.

Include the BPA rules around not giving tickets to vehicles displaying a Blue Badge, look at the BPA rules regarding signage and disability, disabled drivers should be able to read the signs (even the small print) whilst sitting in the car and remember that disabled drivers should be allowed more time to get around the shops and back to the car because it takes them longer than able bodied people.
Good luck
Debs

Magicaldebs · 24 October 2013 at 7:38PM

I'm happy to share my appeals if you want to inbox me
Debs

Coupon-mad · 24 October 2013 at 8:33PM

There is nothing about the period of parking on the letter,

Breaches paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act then (if you Google it, paragraph 9 is really easy to understand and spot the errors with a postal NTK). So when you get to POPLA stage you might want to include the quotes from POPLA assessor Matthew Shaw which I suggested to this poster who had drafted a very good POPLA appeal:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4798336

...but you may not even have to go there if you send UKCPS a long challenge like this:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82050&st=20&p=882435

That poster shows their UKCPS strong appeal in post #36...and UKCPS threw in the towel before POPLA.

LeeS2013 · 24 October 2013 at 9:15PM

Thank you Magicaldebs for your advice, its good to know you managed to win twice!

I will take a look at that tomorrow Coupon, thank you so much for all of this.

I have managed to find out who manages the land for the owners (at least I hope they still manage it) and have emailed the person incharge of retail land managment with a rather stern email taking parts from posts of your own with some additional text from myself. Hopefully this solves the issue before I even have to send an appeal to UKCPS, but I am still working on that appeal letter, it seems to be getting longer and longer.

I was also glad to see the recent win on a similar case on the 4th of october in court, which I have pointed out to the land managers.

Edit: Took all of an hour to get a response from who I believe to be the managers of the land... someone works late. Any how apparently I got the right department but wrong type of person so they have copied in the correct party, very polite thanked me for the email and asked that I give them time to research and investigate to make sure the land is theirs still. Progress at least.

UKCPS PCN Disabled BB Holder

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free