Siemans S2A meter - I think there maybe a problem

Freepost · 26 March 2012 at 1:49PM

Hi,

I have a Siemans S2A electric meter and I am concerned that it maybe reading the electricity that I generate and export to the network as if I am importing it.

Example since 10am until 1:30 this afternoon I have generated 8kWh but in that time the Siemans meter indicates that I have consumed (imported) 5kWh but the only items consuming electricity is a fridge, a freezer, a laptop and a couple of digital clocks. This doesn't seem right, in the depths of winter my consumption is in the reading of 14kWh/day.

Can anybody advise if i do have a problem?

Thanks
F.

EricMears · 26 March 2012 at 1:54PM

Freepost wrote: »

Hi,

I have a Siemans S2A electric meter and I am concerned that it maybe reading the electricity that I generate and export to the network as if I am importing it.

Example since 10am until 1:30 this afternoon I have generated 8kWh but in that time the Siemans meter indicates that I have consumed (imported) 5kWh but the only items consuming electricity is a fridge, a freezer, a laptop and a couple of digital clocks. This doesn't seem right, in the depths of winter my consumption is in the reading of 14kWh/day.

Can anybody advise if i do have a problem?

Thanks
F.

It's a known 'fault' with some Siemens S2AS meters that have an 'anti-tamper' programme. All the exported units are supposed to be available from an internal register - though you may have difficulty in finding an operator who understands the sitution in the foreign call centre that you're probably forced to call or getting anybody to come and correct things. Your REC's solar energy helpline might be able to help.

Freepost · 26 March 2012 at 3:30PM

EricMears wrote: »

It's a known 'fault' with some Siemens A2S meters that have an 'anti-tamper' programme. All the exported units are supposed to be available from an internal register - though you may have difficulty in finding an operator who understands the sitution in the foreign call centre that you're probably forced to call or getting anybody to come and correct things. Your REC's solar energy helpline might be able to help.

Hi Eric,

Thank you for the advice. I contacted British Gas, my electricity supplier and I think very fortunate that they also handle the FiT payments to me - so an English customer service dept but nevertheless it took over an hour to sort out with several phone calls to different depts. ever felt like a ping-pong ball? End result they are going to replace the meter.

Thanks for your help.

F.

EricMears · 26 March 2012 at 3:40PM

Freepost wrote: »

Hi Eric,

Thank you for the advice. I contacted British Gas, my electricity supplier and I think very fortunate that they also handle the FiT payments to me - so an English customer service dept but nevertheless it took over an hour to sort out with several phone calls to different depts. ever felt like a ping-pong ball? End result they are going to replace the meter.

Thanks for your help.

F.

No doubt on one of their revenue sharing (0845 /0870 ) numbers ? Allegedly offered at 'national' or 'local' rates but in fact excluded from normal call charge packages so you can't even call them free of charge in the evening or at weekends. Probably cost you £3, maybe £6 to sort out !

Look them up on
http://www.saynoto0870.com
and you should find an alternative number for next time.

jkpaul · 5 July 2012 at 12:02PM

Wow am I glad I found this thread?!

We had a 4kW SOlar PV array fitted in Nov 2011 and things seemed OK. Of course I'd hoped for higher generation figures (UK weather!), faster FiT payments (E.ON!) and a more significant saving in my electricity usage, but I was happy enough.

After the really sunny week at the end of March I started to suspect something was wrong with our generation / electricity meters as whenever we had a bumper week of generation, although we were not able to make the maximum possible usage of the generated power, we would still have a bumper week for purchased electricity too.

So last weekend I was trawling this board to see where the best place was to post my question ("Why when we have a very sunny week does my imported electricity usage increase?") when I found this thread about the very same problem I checked our import meter and found it was indeed a Siemens S2AS too.

Since then I've been working on getting the best resolution to this problem. Sadly this has been made more difficult since after our PV installation & FiT registration with E.ON in November we've moved our dual-fuel to Ovo Energy in Feb 2012. The FiT has stayed with E.ON (I didn't want to do anything which risked the payments taking even longer) and therefore Ovo have little or nothing to do with our PV generation.

I decided that as the Nov - Feb period was not a particularly long or fruitful one for generation, I wouldn't go back to E.ON to claim back what I've been overcharged. I started by speaking to Ovo (who of course had no idea of the issue) and they've now said that they will investigate and probably replace the meter (at a £30 charge to me!) and try to interrogate it and find out what my export figures are and therefore how much they've overcharged me.

Now I had no idea they'd want to charge me to replace the meter (naive!) but if that's the case then I think I'll have to chase E.ON as they were aware when we bought the Solar PV system & had it installed. They were informed and all the necessary paperwork was approved. At no point did they raise the potential issue with the Siemens S2AS (though I'm sure someone there will have known by last year) and they then proceeded to overcharge me as per Ovo ever since.

I've also informed the installation company (again, clueless about the issue) and they've said that yes they surveyed & passed everything, they cannot legally touch the import meter and it is E.ON's responsibility to ensure it is fit for purpose and functioning properly. They've offered to speak to E.ON for us so we'll see where that gets us.

Honestly, I'm not looking for compensation, other than a refund for what is probably an overcharge of perhaps 5-10 units per day, £15-30/month for the period from mid-Nov to today (at the very least from mid-Feb to today).

I'm not sure the best way to get this but I'm worried that each party will blame the other, that I'll get stung to have the meter changed and they'll claim they cannot refund me.

Any help or advice is very welcome!
Paul

EricMears · 5 July 2012 at 2:33PM

Can't see any reason for charging you to change a meter.

It's a known fault with that particular meter (not every single one, just those with the 'anti-tamper' facility but REC who supplied it should have a record of what was specified) and has been widely discussed on this & other bulletin boards.

May not have been Ovo or Eon who installed the meter but it sure as hell wasn't you. If they want to dig around and find out who did supply a faulty meter then so be it.

All the figures should be easily accessible from the meter registers. Highly likely that some clot 'investigating' them will manage to delete the info - in which case your own will be the most accurate estimate available of what the true position might have been so make sure you don't underestimate your loss.

The_Green_Hornet · 5 July 2012 at 3:03PM

Who owns my meter?
The meters are owned by the company responsible for distribution/transportation of the supply to the property i.e. a Host Electricity Company, in the case of electricity, and National Grid or an Independent Gas Transporter (IGT), in the case of gas.

http://www.eonenergy.com/FAQ/New-Connections/Who-Owns-Meter.htm

Who is my Host REC (Regional Electricity Company)?
The host regional electricity company own and maintain the entire electricity network in a local area. These areas are divided geographically and are dependent on where your development or property is.

http://www.eonenergy.com/FAQ/New-Connections/Who+is+my+Host+REC+%28Regional+Electricity+Company%29.htm

The second link has a Find Your Regional Electricity Company inquiry form which should tell you the name and telephone number of your REC.

Terrylw1 · 10 July 2012 at 2:32AM

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

Who owns my meter?
The meters are owned by the company responsible for distribution/transportation of the supply to the property i.e. a Host Electricity Company, in the case of electricity, and National Grid or an Independent Gas Transporter (IGT), in the case of gas.

http://www.eonenergy.com/FAQ/New-Connections/Who-Owns-Meter.htm

Who is my Host REC (Regional Electricity Company)?
The host regional electricity company own and maintain the entire electricity network in a local area. These areas are divided geographically and are dependent on where your development or property is.

http://www.eonenergy.com/FAQ/New-Connections/Who+is+my+Host+REC+%28Regional+Electricity+Company%29.htm

The second link has a Find Your Regional Electricity Company inquiry form which should tell you the name and telephone number of your REC.

Sadly, Eon's advice is many years out date.

Meters are owned by Meter Asset Providers (MAP), not distributors. In many cases, distributors own MAP's as well as suppliers, but they trade desperately and are contracted by suppliers. Suppliers then contract Meter Asset Managers (MAM) to perform any works.

The meter market finally privatised this way about 10 years ago in the REMA changes.

Worth noting that the distribution elec market finally privatised and changes made in Modification P62 to remove the need for the distributor to remain regional. They can now own supply anywhere and new distributors entered the market. You tend to find they are "embedded networks" often new builders use them like this to kit out a whole site by undercutting the old "host REC" one.

thenudeone · 10 July 2012 at 12:47PM

Have a look at these links:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3191844
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2438055&page=4

jkpaul · 10 July 2012 at 2:56PM

thenudeone wrote: »

Have a look at these links:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3191844
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2438055&page=4

Yes, you might not have seen but my posts are also at the bottom (p12/13) of the first of those links.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the 2nd link but I appreciate your taking the time to comment.

thenudeone · 10 July 2012 at 9:31PM

jkpaul wrote: »

I'm not sure of the relevance of the 2nd link

Post 70 quotes a response from an REC regarding known problems with the Siemens S2A

Siemans S2A meter - I think there maybe a problem

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