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Builder? Topps Tiles? Me? Whose fault is it...
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simons_2
Posts: 26 Forumite
We are having our new loft bathroom done. At builder's recommendation we bought from Topps Tiles - two boxes of the same tile name, same batch number, same quality control code.
When the tiler put the tiles up, the other workmen on the job and the foreman all commented separately that the match was not good between some of the tiles. Instead of being Arctic White, about twelve of the forty are a distinct grey colour.
We rang Topps Tiles and they pointed out that both their receipt AND the boxes state that you should ensure you are happy with the colour match before putting the tiles on the wall. So...they do not want to offer a refund or replacement tiles.
The Builder however says it is Topps Tiles fault that the tiles do not match, and that they have never seen such a bad match befiore. To us they are saying it is not their fault because it would be "impractical and too time consuming" to check the tiles before they put them on the wall. (There are a total of 40 tiles in all, so not sure how either of these can really be valid points of view).
That the match is bad is not in question. My issue then is who should put the work right. To me it is fairly clear that the tiler should have either a) checked the tiles before he began, as per the instructions on each of the two boxes, to see he was happy with the colour match b) stopped as soon as he saw that one of the tiles was not a good match and queried it. We are now faced with the cost of not just buyng more tiles, but also paying for the work to be redone if we want to get the job done properly.
I would appreciate other viewpoints on this. Am I being unreasonable about expecting the builders to make good this at their expense? Are the builders trying to dodge their responsibility? I am not a tiler, but I would have thought that after a while in the job - and this guy was excellent technically - you would know to check the tiles before you begin. There were only about 40 in total.
When the tiler put the tiles up, the other workmen on the job and the foreman all commented separately that the match was not good between some of the tiles. Instead of being Arctic White, about twelve of the forty are a distinct grey colour.
We rang Topps Tiles and they pointed out that both their receipt AND the boxes state that you should ensure you are happy with the colour match before putting the tiles on the wall. So...they do not want to offer a refund or replacement tiles.
The Builder however says it is Topps Tiles fault that the tiles do not match, and that they have never seen such a bad match befiore. To us they are saying it is not their fault because it would be "impractical and too time consuming" to check the tiles before they put them on the wall. (There are a total of 40 tiles in all, so not sure how either of these can really be valid points of view).
That the match is bad is not in question. My issue then is who should put the work right. To me it is fairly clear that the tiler should have either a) checked the tiles before he began, as per the instructions on each of the two boxes, to see he was happy with the colour match b) stopped as soon as he saw that one of the tiles was not a good match and queried it. We are now faced with the cost of not just buyng more tiles, but also paying for the work to be redone if we want to get the job done properly.
I would appreciate other viewpoints on this. Am I being unreasonable about expecting the builders to make good this at their expense? Are the builders trying to dodge their responsibility? I am not a tiler, but I would have thought that after a while in the job - and this guy was excellent technically - you would know to check the tiles before you begin. There were only about 40 in total.
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Topps are right that they cannot possibly check that every tile matches every other one. They clearly place the onus on you to check the match prior to use, presumably so that they could be exchanged if there was a problem. You didn't check them first. How many had your builder put up before they noticed the difference. If its more than a couple you might suggest they go to Specsavers.0
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I think as you bought them, the onus was on you to check them. If the builder had bought them, it would have been up to him. That is one of the reasons I opted for my bathroom fitter to supply and fit everything eventhough it would have been cheaper for me to buy them myself - if something he bought was incorrect, it was up to him to sort it out and the couldn't blame anyone else.0
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Re Topps Tiles - I think their disclaimer probably exempts them, though I fail to see why they bother with not just a name, but a batch number and quality control code, if the colour variation is so bad. As to us and the builder, well, we had the tiles delivered to the property and into the care of the builders who had them up in the loft - a no go zone for us - along with our flooring, paint, bathroom hardware to install as and when the time came for each bit to be done.0
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, we had the tiles delivered to the property and into the care of the builders who had them up in the loft - a no go zone for us - along with our flooring, paint, bathroom hardware to install as and when the time came for each bit to be done.
But that was your choice - I assume that there was no reason why they couldn't have been delivered to you first.0 -
We had them delivered on say 10 Dec. And they were delivered to us, and then 2min later, after I called up the stairs, they were passed to the builders. They were due to be installed soon after but due to delays - weather, illness - the builders never got round to the tiling until say 20 Jan. Our expectation was not to inspect the tiles - since we were not going to unpack them in the living room - but to pass them to the builders, which as I say, was done within 2mins of them arriving. On a separate note, the builders DID manage to report a cracked sink - and in this instance since they had also had it in their possession for more than 30 days, Bathstore also weren't interested in taking this back, not least because it could have been damaged by the builders, not by the delivery. In this case, we are also being asked to foot the bill by the builder even though, again, they have had the item in their care. If you're logic followed here, they would have simply installed the cracked sink since they could then claim it is not their job to inspect and reject the goods if not acceptable.0
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If you're logic followed here, they would have simply installed the cracked sink since they could then claim it is not their job to inspect and reject the goods if not acceptable.
No, because I assume the cracked sink was obvious, and I assume the difference in tile colour wasn't unless your builder is bloody-minded and decided not to tell you even though he had noticed that the 2 boxes didn't match.
I'm afraid, that is the risk you take if you decided to source the materials youself. If the builder had bought the sink, he would have had to replace it for you.0 -
No, because I assume the cracked sink was obvious, and I assume the difference in tile colour wasn't unless your builder is bloody-minded and decided not to tell you even though he had noticed that the 2 boxes didn't match.
As I say, the colour mis-match was surely obvious. Obvious enough for him to apparently query it with his colleagues (carpenters) on the premises, and for them to point it out to me when I came home, and for the foreman to ask me what I thought about it. The latter didn't for example not mention it, thinking it insignificant, he mentioned it right away "have you seen the colour mismatch, what do you think of it".
In this case time was not of the essence, they could have called us and said, we have an issue - just as they have done with other things that have required our attention.0 -
As I say, the colour mis-match was surely obvious. Obvious enough for him to apparently query it with his colleagues (carpenters) on the premises, and for them to point it out to me when I came home, and for the foreman to ask me what I thought about it. The latter didn't for example not mention it, thinking it insignificant, he mentioned it right away "have you seen the colour mismatch, what do you think of it".
In this case time was not of the essence, they could have called us and said, we have an issue - just as they have done with other things that have required our attention.
But did he query it with the carpenters before he had put the tiles up? If so, then I agree, it is partly his fault - he should have checked with you before fitting the tiles.0 -
But did he query it with the carpenters before he had put the tiles up? If so, then I agree, it is partly his fault - he should have checked with you before fitting the tiles.
Yes, he did. He called in the others apparently and asked them. Don't know if he did this before he laid the first tile or at some point as he went along, but it was clearly well known amongst them. I was only aware of it because the carpenter asked me to look at it. I expressed my concern and then, as I say, before I could talk to the foreman, he raised the subject with me, since it was clearly presenting a problem.
Point is, we want the work done properly. Wouldn't anyone?
At this point in time, we might have be faced with not only buying new tiles, but also paying the same people to do the work all over again! I would be prepared to buy new tiles as a compromise but would not expect to pay for the work to be redone.
The excuse of not having time to check the tiles seems ridiculous, given the costs to be incurred if there was a problem with them. Their haste to do the work looks like costing us not just time, but potentially a lot of money too.0 -
Yes, he did. He called in the others apparently and asked them. Don't know if he did this before he laid the first tile or at some point as he went along, but it was clearly well known amongst them. I was only aware of it because the carpenter asked me to look at it. I expressed my concern and then, as I say, before I could talk to the foreman, he raised the subject with me, since it was clearly presenting a problem.
Point is, we want the work done properly. Wouldn't anyone?
At this point in time, we might have be faced with not only buying new tiles, but also paying the same people to do the work all over again! I would be prepared to buy new tiles as a compromise but would not expect to pay for the work to be redone.
The excuse of not having time to check the tiles seems ridiculous, given the costs to be incurred if there was a problem with them. Their haste to do the work looks like costing us not just time, but potentially a lot of money too.
Yes, I think that is a fair compromise - you buy the tiles and the builder re-fits them foc.0
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