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  • FIRST POST
    • terryw
    • By terryw 25th Oct 10, 7:40 AM
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    terryw
    Death doesn't bring an end to timeshare fee
    • #1
    • 25th Oct 10, 7:40 AM
    Death doesn't bring an end to timeshare fee 25th Oct 10 at 7:40 AM
    Various other threads on MSE have pointed out the dangers of time-share concerns. Tony Hetherington the well-respected financial journalist points out :

    "I thought that over the past quarter of a century I had read, or written, just about everything possible about timeshare companies.
    But one that pursues people beyond the grave has to be in a class of its own. Macdonald Resorts seems to have based its business on the idea that when an owner dies, their timeshare will be inherited by a relative or sold."

    This one defies belief!

    Here's the link.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1323162/TONY-HETHERINGTON-Death-doesnt-bring-end-timeshare-fee.html
    "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"
    Extract from "If" by Rudyard Kipling
Page 1
  • kwaks
    • #2
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:01 AM
    • #2
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:01 AM
    500 maintenance for a week at Forest Hills? Now whilst I agree it is a nice peaceful place to stay, and that pond in the picture is literally teaming with course fish, that figure quoted seems a bit of an exageration.

    This was originally a Barrett timeshare, I am wondering if the purchasers from MacDonalds are doing so under less favorable terms?

    As far as I know the original timeshare would pass through one generation (parent to child) and no further. Problem in this case may be the difficulty in selling the week, or indeed renting it out at profit.
    • terryw
    • By terryw 25th Oct 10, 8:11 AM
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    terryw
    • #3
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:11 AM
    • #3
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:11 AM
    500 maintenance for a week at Forest Hills? Now whilst I agree it is a nice peaceful place to stay, and that pond in the picture is literally teaming with course fish, that figure quoted seems a bit of an exageration.

    This was originally a Barrett timeshare, I am wondering if the purchasers from MacDonalds are doing so under less favorable terms?

    As far as I know the original timeshare would pass through one generation (parent to child) and no further. Problem in this case may be the difficulty in selling the week, or indeed renting it out at profit.
    Originally posted by kwaks
    The 500 is not an exaggeration. Here's a link to a one for sale on Ebay at the moment - the seller is just after 200 to be rid of it! the annual fees are well over 500!
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Timeshare-Forest-Hills-Trossachs-Club-Scotland-/320604224788?pt=UK_Tickets_Travel_Accommodation_ET &hash=item4aa5803d14#ht_500wt_942
    "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"
    Extract from "If" by Rudyard Kipling
    • soolin
    • By soolin 25th Oct 10, 8:11 AM
    • 61,872 Posts
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    soolin
    • #4
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:11 AM
    • #4
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:11 AM
    I read that story as well and was quite shocked, I had no idea that some of these time shares were bought in pertuity and would just carry on attracting fees from the deceased estates.

    I can imagine dozens of people all over the country deciding which relative they dislike the most and will leave the time share to, although as it says in the article the person who is gifted it can still refuse to take it on and then the estate continues to build up fees.

    What a nightmare
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  • Errata
    • #5
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:18 AM
    • #5
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:18 AM
    It would seem that a Timeshare is an asset of an estate and as such billing will continue in the same way that council tax on a deceased's property does until its inherited or sold.
    .....................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...
    • terryw
    • By terryw 25th Oct 10, 8:29 AM
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    terryw
    • #6
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:29 AM
    • #6
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:29 AM
    It would seem that a Timeshare is an asset of an estate and as such billing will continue in the same way that council tax on a deceased's property does until its inherited or sold.
    Originally posted by Errata
    Yes, this appears to be the crux of it. But there is virtually no market for
    second-hand time-shares and it could well never sell so consequently the estate of the deceased could be responsible for the annual fees for the rest of eternity! Frightening.
    "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"
    Extract from "If" by Rudyard Kipling
  • Errata
    • #7
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:34 AM
    • #7
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:34 AM
    Not really, I suspect any Timeshare on ebay with a Buy it Now price of 99p would sell.
    .....................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...
    • maninthestreet
    • By maninthestreet 25th Oct 10, 8:34 AM
    • 15,345 Posts
    • 13,908 Thanks
    maninthestreet
    • #8
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:34 AM
    • #8
    • 25th Oct 10, 8:34 AM
    Yet another reason to steer clear of Timeshares.
    "You were only supposed to blow the bl**dy doors off!!"
    • terryw
    • By terryw 25th Oct 10, 9:09 AM
    • 3,823 Posts
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    terryw
    • #9
    • 25th Oct 10, 9:09 AM
    • #9
    • 25th Oct 10, 9:09 AM
    Not really, I suspect any Timeshare on ebay with a Buy it Now price of 99p would sell.
    Originally posted by Errata
    I fear that you are mistaken. Here's a one currently on Ebay with opening bid of one penny and BIN 99 pence. No bids yet and only twenty minutes to go.



    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-BEDROOM-APARTMENT-SAHARA-SUNSET-Benalmadena-SPAIN-/330485048463?pt=UK_Tickets_Travel_Accommodation_



    Most people are too worldy-wise to get involved with time-share at any price!
    "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"
    Extract from "If" by Rudyard Kipling
    • tbw
    • By tbw 25th Oct 10, 9:46 AM
    • 4,880 Posts
    • 56,472 Thanks
    tbw
    I suppose that when these 'in perpetuity' time shares were bought, it seemed like a n excellent deal as the buyer retained full ownershop of the week' ( a bit like freehold on a house ) rather than it reverting back to the company at the end of x number of years (like leasehold). You could leave it in your will if it was 'in perpetuity' but not if it was on a fixed lease. Now, with cheap packae tours, high maintenace charges and high flight cost, nobody wants timeshare so its impossible to sell on and your relatives won't thank you!

    We had a couple of timeshares - one we are very happy with and still continue to use, the other had constantly escalating maintenance fees and, as we weren't using that one so much, it became a bit of a white elephant. We kept getting cold calls from various companies that promised they could sell it for us and get us a profit - but, of course, they wanted around 1000 upfront to cover their 'initial admin costs' ! I'm not daft and all of these were immediately told to take a hike.

    Fortunately, there is one foolproof way of getting rid of a 'lease' time share - stop paying the maintenance and, after a couple of warning letters, they will re-posess it. You've lost whatever your initial investment was but, if you've had some good holidays, thats just a fact of life. Doesn't work with the perpetuity thing though.
    • scottishminnie
    • By scottishminnie 25th Oct 10, 12:20 PM
    • 2,991 Posts
    • 58,028 Thanks
    scottishminnie
    very interesting - it's got me wondering though - if someone leaves you something in a will (like a timeshare) can you simply refuse to accept it or are you stuck with it and possibly a lot of hassle thereafter?
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 25th Oct 10, 12:23 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    very interesting - it's got me wondering though - if someone leaves you something in a will (like a timeshare) can you simply refuse to accept it or are you stuck with it and possibly a lot of hassle thereafter?
    Originally posted by scottishminnie
    You can refuse it.
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • kwaks
    I have used Forest Hills a few times fo day visits, actually not a bad place, however they may want to take a lead from the owners of Loch Rannoch timeshares.

    Fed up with constant rises in maintenance fees, the owners there effectively forced MacDonald resorts out of the management.
  • the apple
    I was unemployed for 18 months , and trying to save money I tried to give my timeshare back to Diamond Resorts as I could not afford the maintenance payments they said I was unable to do that and also said I have the timeshare for pertuity. So I decided not to pay the fees but yesterday I recieved a letter from an outside debt agency saying that they have bought the debt off Diamond Resorts. I just dont know what to do PLEASE HELP . I am back in work now but feel trapped .
    • brettcta
    • By brettcta 19th Jul 11, 10:37 AM
    • 3,543 Posts
    • 3,332 Thanks
    brettcta
    so, basically, you were told you couldn't stop paying but decided to do so anyway?
    helpful tips
    it's spelt d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y
    there - 'in or at that place'
    their - 'owned by them'
    they're - 'they are'
    it's bought not brought (i just bought my chicken a suit from that new shop for 6.34)
    • terryw
    • By terryw 19th Jul 11, 10:43 AM
    • 3,823 Posts
    • 5,982 Thanks
    terryw
    I was unemployed for 18 months , and trying to save money I tried to give my timeshare back to Diamond Resorts as I could not afford the maintenance payments they said I was unable to do that and also said I have the timeshare for pertuity. So I decided not to pay the fees but yesterday I recieved a letter from an outside debt agency saying that they have bought the debt off Diamond Resorts. I just dont know what to do PLEASE HELP . I am back in work now but feel trapped .
    Originally posted by the apple
    Sorry about your predicament.

    There is a very long thread about Diamond Resorts at
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1120715&highlight=diamond+resorts

    worth having a read through here.

    bw regardless
    "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"
    Extract from "If" by Rudyard Kipling
  • fluffnutter
    I think anyone who inherits an estate which includes one of these shitty things should cease paying and let whichever tosspot company it is take them to court. Writing something on a contract, e.g. you owe me a million pounds forever, doesn't make it fair nor legal.

    I bet it's not legal anyway but people continue anyway because they become bamboozled and intimidated by the companies that operate these ridiculous schemes. I'm no lawyer but I bet there's some technicality essentially along the lines of contracts like these ceasing to be binding once you're dead because if they continue, essentially you're agreeing to something that you can't possibly have any control over or be involved with. You can't just lumber your inheritors with your contract.

    I certainly wouldn't continue paying for something I don't use, nor would I view it my responsibility to sell something so inherently troublesome and worthless. I'd go to court and fight it every step of the way. If people stood up to these ridiculous sharp practices, companies would have to stop ripping people off.
    Last edited by fluffnutter; 19-07-2011 at 4:00 PM.
    "Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey.
    • Azari
    • By Azari 19th Jul 11, 4:02 PM
    • 3,941 Posts
    • 6,164 Thanks
    Azari
    I think anyone who inherits an estate which includes one of these shitty things should cease paying and let whichever tosspot company it is take them to court. Writing something on a contract, e.g. you owe me a million pounds forever, doesn't make it fair nor legal.

    I bet it's not legal anyway but people continue anyway because they become bamboozled and intimidated by the companies that operate these ridiculous schemes. I'm no lawyer but I bet there's some technicality essentially along the lines of contracts like these ceasing to be binding once you're dead because if they continue, essentially you're agreeing to something that you can't possibly have any control over or be involved with. You can't just lumber your inheritors with your contract.

    I certainly wouldn't continue paying for something I don't use, nor would I view it my responsibility to sell something so inherently troublesome and worthless. I'd go to court and fight it every step of the way. If people stood up to these ridiculous sharp practices, companies would have to stop ripping people off.
    Originally posted by fluffnutter
    In practice, a solicitor would almost certainly be able to tell you in advance what the decision of the court would be.
  • fluffnutter
    In practice, a solicitor would almost certainly be able to tell you in advance what the decision of the court would be.
    Originally posted by Azari
    Probably. But that's an interesting point... why do people ever lose then?
    "Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey.
    • Azari
    • By Azari 19th Jul 11, 4:17 PM
    • 3,941 Posts
    • 6,164 Thanks
    Azari
    Probably. But that's an interesting point... why do people ever lose then?
    Originally posted by fluffnutter
    People lose either because they insist on pursuing unwinnable cases or because there is some question as to how the law applies to some specific case.

    In this instance, however, it's all very cut and dried. Either such a term is valid or it isn't. Once a court has decided that (and any appeals have played out), the matter is settled.

    There is almost certainly some legal mechanism to deal with a liability in perpetuity since no estate, however large, can pay off something that carries on indefinitely and the matter must have come up many times in the past when a landlord leaves a property occupied by a sitting tenant.

    Consulting a solicitor is definitely the way forward in this instance.
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