RSA/motability insurance problem

mswale · 24 July 2009 at 6:33PM

This is a bit involved so bear with me!! my friends husband is in the late stages of huntingdons disease so is severely disabled and has a motability vehicle, driven by their son. It is their only means of transport. Last december a van drove into the back of the vehicle when only the son was in it. 2 men got out of the van and threatened the son. He jumped out of the car but left the keys in the ignition, and one of the men jumped into the car and drove away - the other one then drove off in the van. the police were informed and it was recorded as an aggravated theft, and in their view there should have been no problem with the insurance claim, but seven months later the insurance co, RSA, won't pay out because they say it it the son's fault for leaving the keys in the ignition. Motability have been taking payments for the car all this time, and now they say they want £20000 from my friend as a final payment! She works 30 hours a week in Sainsburys, so obviously does not have this sort of money, and the rest of the time cares for the husband who needs specialised care - she does not know where to turn now to sort this out - does any one have any ideas?

mattymoo · 24 July 2009 at 6:59PM

It is a bit of a complex area but insurers should be looking at the proximate cause of the incident. This is often known as the "but for" test.

If it hadn't been for the rear end impact and subsequent threats, the son would not have got out of the car and the theft would not have occured. Claim would be paid.

If he had left vehicle by side of the road and someone hit it, realised the keys were in and drove off in it, the proximate cause of the theft would be the fact the keys were left in the vehicle and the claim would be declined.

Like I say, its a bit of a complex area and I'm sure Dacouch can explain it better. Has your friend exhausted the formal complaints procedure with RSA? Have they applied pressure via Motability and the Financial Ombudsman Service?

raskazz · 24 July 2009 at 7:03PM

I think that there will be more to this than meets the eye. I suspect that RSA do not believe the son's version of events. I must say that if I found myself being threatened by a couple of blokes, the last thing I would do is get out of the car (unless, say, they had a gun and were demanding that I did so).

mattymoo · 24 July 2009 at 7:30PM

mswale - did the police ever have any joy with this?

If the chaps in the van were opportunists who took off without thinking, they would more than likely dump the car a few miles away and it would have been recovered by now.

Alternatively, they could have deliberately rammed the car with a view to stealing it and the threats were used to disorientate the son. Quite possibly violence would have been used if he had not left the keys in the vehicle. In that scenario I would have thought the police would have been pulling their finger out a bit more.

mswale · 24 July 2009 at 11:02PM

Hi Mattymoo - It is as you describe - the men in the van did threaten violence, and the vehicle was never recovered. The refusal of the claim rests on the fact that the keys were left in the vehicle.

mattymoo · 24 July 2009 at 11:21PM

Long term, if Motability sue your friend for the o/s £20k I would see if you could add RSA as a co-defendant.

in the short term, how far down the complaints process are you. Have RSA issued a deadlock letter? This is the letter that say "we're never going to agree with you, we'd best let the Financial Ombudsma step in and sort this out". It doesn't actually say that but that is the upshot. If you've not already gone down that route, now is the time to start.

mswale · 25 July 2009 at 10:28AM

It's currently at the stage where RSA have said they will not pay the claim. As you say I think we are now at the stage of letters to RSA disputing this and then taking it to the Ombudsman. The Police report is probably key in all this - will try and get a copy, but I have a feeling this is going to take a long time to resolve. Thanks for your advice Mattymoo.

mattymoo · 25 July 2009 at 12:11PM

Approach the Financial Ombudsman Service now (they have quite a waiting list) and they will advise you about things like deadlock letters and the powers the FOS have.

I would also write a letter detailing the problems you have had to Motability head office. The Motability fleet is the largest in the UK and RSA earn a lot of money out of it. They are keen not to tarnish their reputation with the people who administer Motability.

LadyIndecisive · 25 July 2009 at 5:52PM

I wonder if it is worth one last attempt with RSA, perhaps this has gone no further than a team leader in a theft team. I'd possibly see if I could contact the/a claims manager.

If this ended up in Court would RSA need to prove that the car driver had acted unreasonably? My legal skills are not perfect but I can't see that he has on the basis of the facts presented here.

The fact that the car has not shown up is obviously a pointer that it has a new identity and this was not an opportunist theft. I'd certainly look for an update from the police, including any details of the van which they must of looked into; was it on stolen/false plates etc - more evidence that these were organised criminals and that this was an intentional, planned car jacking which would have ended with a stolen car at best and injury to your friend's son at worst.

bevy · 23 January 2011 at 12:23AM

Would be really interested to hear how you got on. We are in a similar situation. Car stolen after keys left in. Door was locked with spare key after defrosting car. Went in house to collect daughter, whom car is for, came back out, robbers had broken window to get in car and driven off.
Insurance won't pay out because of keys left in ignition, engine running. motability won't give us another car. Keeeping our daughters allowance and can do so until march 2012, when we will then have to pay balance of what is outstanding towards car. Probably be about £7000.
Don't understand how they are able to do this. We are victims, yet our daughter gets her money taken. At moment we have borrowed a family members car, which we have to pay £200 a month insurance for - need transport for daughter who is 5, has cerebral palsey.
Have just written letter of appeal to motability, waiting on outcome of that, could take up to 10 weeks.
Don't feel as though police investigated properly, did not interview builders over road who were potential witnesses. I have suspision, actually involed in giving someone the tip off to get car.
Any tips/ advice what to do next.

andygt4 · 25 January 2011 at 12:55AM

i to am in the same postion car went in december keys init to thaw it out i was in the front door putting on my daughters shoes as she cant do this i stood up grabed her wheel chair which was just inside the door as i turned the car rolled i thought o crap ive left the hand brake of and knocked it out of gear to start but as i walked towards the car it raced of i could not chase as i my daughter was out side with me and she is far more precious,also as the rear windows are tinted i daint see any one through the rear of the car i am waiting to here from them this week. ? how did you bevy???

RSA/motability insurance problem

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