Picture Finance PPI...!!!!!!!

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Long Story short....Got stitched up on Single Premium PPI, complained, was fobbed off, went to FSO, waited, waited, waited, waited some more and was eventually told Picture ceased trading and complaint now being dealt with by FSCS.

Can anyone help with these questions?

· Pictures loans are now being Managed by Target Group but they refuse to discuss the complaint as Picture does not exist anymore even though all of the people employed by Target were once employed by Picture. If Target are simply managing the loan book on behalf of Merrill and Duetche Bank now that Picture no longer exists, who bears ultimate responsibility for the conduct of Picture in this matter?

(If I die does my debt get written off....no off course not my next of Kin would have to pay, surely what’s good for the Goose....)


· Are people like me really expected to sit on hands for months at a time watching a complaint involving tens of thousands of pounds being passed from complaints dept, to ombudsman to compensation service, whilst all the time struggling to make repayments that are being used to pay for the very insurance policy we are making the complaint about in the 1st place?

(If your meal at a restaurant was cold you would expect to have to keep eating it whilst the chef made corrected the error, so why carry on paying for a policy that you don’t want or need)


· Is it ethical or in line the Treating Customers fairly initiative, for Picture to chase me for an outstanding amount when they are in fact the reason that the payment is outstanding in the first place?

(You can’t tie someone’s shoe laces together and moan at them for not running fast enough to keep)


Simplistic analogies perhaps but the I’m a fairly simple guy. It seems to me that companies like Picture are using institutions designed to protect the consumer as blocking or delaying tools for their own ends, surely this is a loophole that needs to addressed quickly!!

Comments or suggestion are very welcome
:mad:

Comments

  • Oscar_The_Grouch
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    I think you have come unstuck at a very bad time and my sympathy is with you. The legal entity you are making a claim against does not exist any more. If you were to die leaving huge debts and had no next of kin, who would your creditors claim off? Essentially, that is what has happened with Pictures; they are dead and there is no next of kin.

    With regard to the employees, if you were to die and your home was sold to someone else, is it reasonable for the next owner of the house to find a completely new gardner and cleaner, or could he just employ yours? If your neighbour wanted to claim for damage you had done to their wall and he had discussed this with your cleaner before you died, why would the cleaner be interested now? You are not her employer!

    The same thing has happened here; the new company have kept on the old employees, but they have no interest in your claim against the old employer!!

    TCF - For you to claim that a company is not treating you fairly, there has to be a company for you to complain about. They no longer exist, so saying "TCF" is like complaining to the police that 2 years ago a dead guy parked across your driveway and blocked you in.

    If the FSCS are taking the matter up, give them time.
    In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and was widely regarded as a bad move.
    The late, great, Douglas Adams.
  • gumbi
    gumbi Posts: 126 Forumite
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    Oscar the Grouch...

    Thanks for the response...It's pretty much as I suspected. Something of interest though....

    I spoke again to Picture last night about paying an outstnding amount and setting up a new direct debit. The poor guy had to go through a sheet of disclaiming text on the phone and one of the points he raised got me thinking:

    He said "The name next to your direct debit will be Picture Financial Services Plc" I interupted at this point to remind him that, according to everybody I had spoken to at his office, Picture no longer existed as a trading entity so how could I be paying money to them? Surely if they exist to take money from me then they must exist ti handle the outstanding complaint!!?

    He went very quiet and had no answer other than a barely disguised snort of disgust at the prospect of having to face another day of answering questions to which he had no answer! I could almost see the poor guy shrugging his shoulders!!

    I don't expect anything to speed the complaint along and I'm resigned to leaving it with the FSCS now, but the way the public is treated by these companies makes my blood boil!!!

    I've got Picture or Target or whoever they claim to be now sending me a letter explaining the relationship between Picture, Merrill and Duetsche Bbank and detailing where ultimate responsibility for this fiasco lays.

    My argument is that I still owe somebody some money and I want to know who Target are administering the loans for if Picture don't exist! No expectation of any progress, however at this point I simply want to be a pain in the A**e!

    :rolleyes:
  • haseverynamegone_2
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    I too have a loan with them, whomever they are.......?
    My understanding is "Picture Financial Services" no longer exist and that Target have now taken over the loan book. Tareget have registered a new business called "Picture" and are trading under tha name, so as to maintain some sort of brand equity.

    I am worried the new owners start ramping up pressure on interest rates. However if the loans they now have are classed as "risky" where is the sense in apllying more pressure to strapped customers only to force them under and get nothing. That's my theory anyway.

    Keen to understand more about reclaiming PPI from them, so keep this post posted and I will join you in the quest!
  • gumbi
    gumbi Posts: 126 Forumite
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    The plot has thickened since my last post!
    Target are indeed administering the Picture loan book on behalf of Deustche Bank and Merrill Lynch, however Merrill have just been sold off to Bank of America to avoid going under themselves....

    I have been in touch with Target to find out what this means as far as who I actually owe money to and have been promised a response within 5 days.:confused:

    As for reclaiming PPI, Martins guide on the home page of MSE is as good as it gets and will serve you well!
  • Mammamia
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    We are also having problems with Picture (or whoever they are trading as now). We feel we were missold the PPI, but have so far not got very far with an answer to this. Anyway, to cut a long story short, we were due to receive £3000 back this year from the the insurance and have just being informed that we have forfeited this money, including £2000 next year and £1000 the following year! The reason for the forfeit is that we were late making payments on 10 different occasions last year. However, these arrears were agreed with Picture at the time, as I was made redundant twice in 12 months and their interest rates shot up over a short period of time, making the payments nearly £90 a month more! We are now completely up-to-date. As you can imagine, I am now extremely annoyed as, not only were we missold the PPI, but we can't even claim any money back! I am considering withdrawing payments for the insurance and just paying the amount for the actual loan, but wondered what effect this would have being a secured loan.
    Can anyone help?
  • gumbi
    gumbi Posts: 126 Forumite
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    Mammamia,
    Same as me....I agreed a payment plan with Picture however they neglected to tell me how it would affect the rebate plan!

    That's what started me on the whole PPI reclaim crusade as I began to investigate PPI more closely. I wanted to know how they could afford to refund 50% of the premium back in the 1st place and that's when I discovered just how much money they made out of this and just what a dodgy sales practice they employed.

    I suppose what goes around comes around and Picture have paid the ultimate price for their shinanigans...however it's not much help to those us left still trying to claim this money back!

    As for witholding payments on the insurance...I did ask Picture to break down the ratio of payment to them.
    • How much on Interest
    • How much on PPI
    • How much on capital
    To this date I've had no answer but I know that because the insurance is front loaded on the advance likelyhood is that to date all you've been paying for is the PPI!

    I'd never suggest withholding payments on a secured loan as it will risk your property...I know it sticks in your throat but I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

    Get in touch with FSCS as they are now dealing with complaints about Picture PPI http://www.fscs.org.uk/ send them all the information on your PPI and if you haven't already done so check out the Reclaim PPI section on this site as it's a Mine of useful information!
  • expicture
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    i used to work at picture before being made redundant, don't shoot the messenger, i got shafted with a pittance in redundancy

    picture financial group had several different companies within it, not being an accountant I dont know the exact details but basically the money you borrowed either came from merrill or deutsche, but the loan was put through various companies within the picture group, it was all above board but a very complicated way of minimising tax and allowing picture group to be able to repackage your debt to merril/deutsche and then try to sell it on to other investment companies

    your ppi was 'front loaded' which means in effect you borrowed extra money from picture to pay for it upfront, the actual policy is underwritten by some other insurance company (not part of picture group), picture took a commission at the time of sale but that's about the limit of their involvement, if that company within the group still existed you could make a miss-selling complaint but because the company within the group associated with the ppi sales is no longer trading you have nowhere to go. You cant hold back payment for it as you have already paid for it. A bit like borrowing money from a bank to buy a car and then because the car was unreliable refusing to pay back the bank loan

    Target loan servicing do not own the book but have set up two companies (no1 and no2) to service the books on behalf of merril and deutshe, they had no liability or involvement with what when on prior to picture ceasing trading

    part of the deal between merril, deutsche and Target involved the assets and staff of picture being taken on by Target, the gardener analogy above is spot on, same people doing same job in the same building but for a new boss. (this applies to customer service staff only, all the sales and marketing related staff were made redundant

    if the people you now speak to at picture dont seem to know whats going on its because they are probably just as much in the dark as you are the whole redundancy things was very poorly communicated, i suppose they were the lucky ones who kept their jobs but they are not the people who sold you the loans or insurance in the first place so go easy on them

    one last thing, (which might prove unpopular), picture were very strict on the compliance side of things, I suspect most people were just very naive or desperate when they took out the ppi, i'm not saying it was a value for money product but it was a legal one and I suspect there was very little actual mis-selling. it's great that sites like this highlight the poor value products but people need to take responsibility for thier own actions, if you made a mistake and through a lack of understanding or research wasted money on a poor value product you did not really want or need that is a very different thing from thing to being mis-sold an insurance product you could never claim on. Unfortunately there are so many people submitting speculative claims for miss-selling in a bid to make up for their own poor decision making that the system gets bogged down, that means the people with bonafide claims then have to wait much longer for a response
  • gumbi
    gumbi Posts: 126 Forumite
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    I've spoken with the guys at Picture/Target several times over the past weeks and I've always maintained that they are probably the most sympathetic bunch I've spoken to in the Finance Sector...

    I'm agrieved and annoyed, yes, but I know they they are slaves to the same system I am.

    My sympathies are with any current or ex-employees of Picture...Your are as much a victim of circumstance as the rest of us!
  • sandandlime_2
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    Hi guys I am new and looks like the last person to be told picture has gone bust. I have over the last six Months through the Financial Obsbinman been trying to recover my rebate from the PPI which in total was a little under £9,000 I beleave throught London Victora Insurance if my memory serves me right. As some of you have already mentioned above that appox 50% of the PPI rebated in our case it was £4,500 over the five years, the only stipulation was that we did not make a claim. I have since looked closer at their brochure ( Which I should of done earlier) It says the amount is a little over £3,500 so they were not being totally honest at the begining. I did exspess concern on the amount of the PPI and hence why the rebate scheme was explained to both myself and seperatly to my partner. I had no reason to doubt it but I guess some homework should have been done, only now am I a little wiser, but like you very much out of pocket. I am however fortunate to have paid my loan off in full some two years after we took it out. I only receaved a rebate of £600 and hence why i am still pursuing it now. It clearly states in the Picture Brochure you can not lose well I think I have. Its being dealt with by the Financial Obinsman as we speak. only today i receaved a letter from Picture who tell me they have gone bust and have no money to compensate. while I accept that I paid for the PPI for the whole duration of my loan at the time, I did not volunteer my cash rebate nor have I ever missed a payment or made a claim. I wondered if the Insurance company has some responsiblity here in that they could have protected their customers better should this happen. It is surely in their best interests as well to over see the loan company. I wonder how much of my £9,000 went to the Insurance Company, maybe the Insurance Company should of done some homework too. It is always a hard lesson to learn and to be fair like many of you i saw the advert for Picture it seemed so easy and to be honest it was simply too easy. I am not sure where I can go from here I await a final response from the obsbinman, but after getting this letter today it does look grim. I have at least honoured in full my debt and I am at least fortunate to have a job, unlike many of you who are struggling through no fault of your own. My thought are with you all.
  • pgbenson
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    It does take some skill but don't worry, you can claim for mis-sold PPI even if the broker has gone bust. I have been an FSA responsible person since 2004 and now work hard to get people back in touch with their money.

    The FSCS will refunds your losses but many times the claim is even for more than if you claimed for mis-sold PPI when the broker is still around.

    Your claim will be for the full amount of the insurance premium plus some interest based on LIBOR. Deducted from the claim is the amount you would get if you cancelled the policy. Important to note is that with an FSCS claim, you retain the insurance and get the premium back. If you decide to cancel the insurance, the lender will give you a small refund (not likely to ever be pro-rata.

    More information is available at trifs.com/claims/fscs.asp
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