Energy myth-busting: Is it cheaper to have heating on all day?
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HiDavyJones61 wrote: »No it is shut off because if it is left on all night it is too hot to sleep.
Doesn't everyone turn off their heating at night?
In which case you could consider the possibility of improvements in zoning the heat delivery in the house in order to keep the bedroom temperature from being too hot, possibly delivering savings as well as comfort!
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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You will only get a useful comparison if you set your heating onto timed twice a day and check the average usage over a similar month, as no two heating system and house combinations are the same.
I'm not looking for a comparison, I was just wondering how much gas was normally used by someone who didn't have their heating on all day.0 -
In which case you could consider the possibility of improvements in zoning the heat delivery in the house in order to keep the bedroom temperature from being too hot, possibly delivering savings as well as comfort!
Even with the radiators turned off in the bedroom when the heating is on downstairs residual heat manages to heat the bedroom above.
At present the radiators upstairs are "off" as the thermostatic valves are at 2 but the radiators keeping the downstairs at 21 deg C are outputting heat.
Also downstairs room temperature is at present 21.5 deg C and in the room I am sitting in upstairs the temperature is at 22.5 deg C.
I think it has something to do with heat rising.0 -
Hi
Heat doesn't care which direction it travels, however, heated air expands and has a lower relative mass per unit volume than cooler air ... it's the lower density that causes warm air to rise & carry the embedded heat with it .... if you were to reduce the general airflow throughout the property (through closing doors etc) then what you're describing where unheated rooms are warmer than heated ones below shouldn't happen ....
Prior to upgrading the heating system to fully zoned in our property we improved the loft insulation which resulted in a noticeable increase in temperature as you walked upstairs to a point where it became quite uncomfortable at night, this being cause by a galleried landing and a change in the design heat provision requirements creating a distribution imbalance ... easily addressed by zoning the heating and restricting airflow (closing doors upstairs & downstairs as necessary!)
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle0 -
OK, I've used 99kWH per day on average since November 1, 2018 and I don't have my heating on all day.DavyJones61 wrote: »I'm not looking for a comparison, I was just wondering how much gas was normally used by someone who didn't have their heating on all day.
My house is not the same as yours, probably is located in a different part of the country, but does have cavity wall insulation, double glazing and loft insulation. It also has a gravity hot water system and a non-condensing boiler. It provides my hot water as well as heating, but I have an electric shower.
Not trying to be insulting, just illustrating why this thread started in 2012 and has over 1,000 posts in it, but no solid conclusion or evidence proving one method is universally cheaper than the other.I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the In My Home MoneySaving, Energy and Techie Stuff boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.
All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
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Not trying to be insulting, just illustrating why this thread started in 2012 and has over 1,000 posts in it, but no solid conclusion or evidence proving one method is universally cheaper than the other.
I would say that is not correct. If you understand maths and physics there is a proof of how you can use less gas heating 24/7 here
http://www.fullcircuit.com/blog/proof-heating-247-can-be-cheaper
Note I say less gas not less energy. You will always use more energy heating 24/7. The issue is efficiency. Condensing gas boilers are more efficient in condensing mode which requires a return water temperature of 55C or less. This lowers the efficiency of the radiators so the system delivers less heat to the house. The rules for the cheapest heating costs with a condensing boiler are:
1. Run heating as short a time as possible.
2. Run always in condensing mode.
If you have a non condensing boiler then just rule 1 applies. If you have a condensing boiler then it becomes tricky as running short is not compatible with running in condensing mode, especially when the weather is cold. The proof shows that rule 2 is dominant. Run in condensing mode even if that means running longer (i.e. turning the heat on earlier or even 24/7 running).0 -
Basic physics laws don't need any proof.Not trying to be insulting, just illustrating why this thread started in 2012 and has over 1,000 posts in it, but no solid conclusion or evidence proving one method is universally cheaper than the other.
The heat transfer/loss is proportional to the difference in temperature inside and outside. Period.
It's a shame that education is so poor in this country that many people don't understand this and ask for 'proofs'.0 -
There's an assumption in that article that heating for less than 24/7 necessarily entails the boiler dropping out of its more efficient condensing mode hence increasing fuel consumption. I have to admit that back in 1997 when our place was being built I decided to go for a conventional rather than a condensing boiler as at that time the latter had a slightly chequered reputation regarding durability and reliability. Thus I have no direct experience of condensing boilers but I can't see why a heating system cannot be designed to provide sufficient output to enable the boiler to stay in condensing mode whilst heating the house up after a cold night. The basic physics is sound ....rate of heat loss is proportional to temperature difference between inside and outside so switch off when that doesn't entail discomfort e.g. when not there or when tucked up under the duvet.0
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I would say that is not correct. If you understand maths and physics there is a proof of how you can use less gas heating 24/7 here
http://www.fullcircuit.com/blog/proof-heating-247-can-be-cheaper
That isn't proof, it is an illustration based on a set of assumptions.
A different set of assumptions will deliver different results. There is another set of complications here - if the boiler starts to modulate then the difference between flow and return is less. If the boiler is set to control on the flow temperature, then the return temperature will rise and the the boiler will cease to run in condensing mode - a problem made worse by TRVs, which restrict flow and force the boiler into modulation.
A boiler working hard to raise the temperature of a cold house, with TRVs wide open, is more likely not to be modulating and therefore more likely to be efficient.
In any case, a proportional controller can - and should - ensure that the boiler is always in condensing mode.
Different assumptions, different results.4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TLLocation: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch20kWh Pylontech US5000 batteries, Lux AC inverter,Skoda Enyaq iV80, TADO Central Heating control0 -
Orrery, when you mention having trvs wide open, does this mean with them turned off ?
Most of our radiators have trvs.
Thanks.0
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