Non domestic rates bill not my debt

berttheterrier · 25 August 2018 at 10:59AM

Not sure this is the correct place for this question.
Hi Folks, I am sick with worry and hope you can help. I look after some animals that belong to a lovely Gypsy man that I have known for over 20 years. The man has a horse that lives out in the field all year. 1 Goose, 1 Hen 1 Duck and a cockerel that I check on every day. These are kept on some land and stables that he owns but he doesn't live there. The arrangement came about by accident as he was worried with the place being empty that rival Gypsy families would move onto the land. I agreed to keep an eye on it for him and he moved some animals after I agreed I would look after them for him. In return he allows me to keep some things there. I have a couple of old vehicles and some items of old furniture, pots, pans and old clothes in one of the stables. I have grown some vegetables and generally potter about but I don't pay him rent for the use nor do I have any utilities in my name. Many of the stables are locked with padlocks and I do not have access to them. I do not use the address for any correspondence. Any mail goes into a lockable post box attached to the gate post. Today the postman handed me a letter as I turned up to check the animals which is a Notice of Enforcement from the council saying me and my husband (our names) owe over £16k since 2004 for non domestic rates. It all went to court in July apparently but this is the first I know of it. I cannot get hold of the guy that owns the land because he wont give me his number. He calls me from a withheld number if he needs to talk to me or will pop to my house and I leave him notes in the locked letter box if I need to ask him something. Understanding how Gypsy and Traveler folk are suspicious of many people and authority I have never questioned his strange ways preferring not to know what he is up to to be honest! When we do speak he just tells me to get on with things and to look after the place. There is a key safe beside the gate and I know other people do use the yard on occasions. I assume it is him and his family.
I have researched online as best I can and the address is classed as storage with a rate value of £880.
It would seem it is agricultural as it is used for animals and because the horse is not ridden and doesn't uses any of the stables that is also classed as agricultural use. Being agricultural means it is exempt.
Also it seems because the rate value is so low it would be eligible for small business rates which mean nothing is payable as it is exempt.
How do I proceed with this as I do not want to make this worse for me or my husband who suffers severe depression and PTSD.
My saving grace seems to be that the council in question do not seem to know my home address and so I can remove my things and leave the owner a note saying I wont be looking after his animals anymore. But I actually enjoy doing it and my husband finds it really good therapy being there in the countryside with the animals. My husband is self employed because of his illness but works from home so does not need business premises but with hind sight maybe this could be an option to get the exemption for any future rates and enable us to keep our storage facility and enjoy the animals.

martindow · 25 August 2018 at 12:20PM

If the letter is addressed to you by name I assume they do know your address and assume that this land belongs to you. I would write to them to say that this piece of land is not yours. You can search on the Land Registry site to see if this piece of land is registered - if so you can download details by paying a few Pounds to demonstrate you are not the owner.

You may well have a court judgement against you by the sound of it which will affect your credit rating. If so this needs to be straightened out with the court and the judgement set aside on the basis that you are not the owner. LR information will again provide evidence.

You need to let your friend know what is going on by putting a note in his letterbox.

Presumably letters about the court case and earlier correspondence from the council have been picked up from the letterbox and ignored by your friend. Don't disregard this situation and I wouldn't rely onhim 'sorting it out' or telling you not to worry.

berttheterrier · 25 August 2018 at 12:26PM

Thank you I will do this with the land registry. How do I get the judgement set aside please? It was issued at a magistrates court in July. Thank you so much again

kazwookie · 25 August 2018 at 12:35PM

I would suggest you read the notes / leaflets etc that came with the judgement, if not, there should be a phone number, ring that as a starting point.

berttheterrier · 25 August 2018 at 12:44PM

Hi Kazawookie all there is in the envelope is a Notice of Enforcement. I have looked on the land registry and its not registered. This is a nightmare!

lincroft1710 · 25 August 2018 at 4:38PM

It is odd that it has taken 14 years for the council to chase this and the bad news is that you owe the council £16,000 and they will take steps to enforce payment as they have a court order..

How you can challenge this is far from straightforward.

Firstly it is the occupier of a property who is responsible for paying the rates not the owner, so it doesn't matter that the property cannot be found on Land Registry.

Secondly, there have been 3 Non Domestic Rate Revaluations, in 2005, 2010 and finally 2017. Each Revaluation will produce a new Rateable Value, so the property will have had 4 different RVs since 2004. So has occupation of the property changed at any time since 2004.

Thirdly, how much of the property do you actually occupy and how much much does your friend occupy. The locked stables would not be agricultural nor would the horse's stable. A horse is a not classed as "agricultural" unless it is used to plough farmland or similar. The 4 animals seem to be pets rather than farm animals so their "agricultural" status may be in doubt.

It may be that the property needs to be split in two for rating, the part you occupy, the part your friend occupies. But as I understand it, the problem is that only the current (2017) Rateable Value can be amended.

Fourthly, where did the council obtain your name from? I'm sorry but I have a feeling your friend may have given the council your name, unless you have had correspondence with them about the property in the past. Where have they been sending rate demands? Has your friend taken them from the post box and ignored/destroyed them.

Fifthly, the fact you have no address for your friend will probably be viewed with suspicion by the council.

lincroft1710 · 25 August 2018 at 5:51PM

Further thoughts.

You need to speak to a senior revenues officer at the council, fairly quickly, so phone or try to go there in person on Tuesday morning.

I am not certain if Business Rates Relief only applies to property used for an actual business, or applies to all property under the current £15,000 threshold

berttheterrier · 27 August 2018 at 9:04AM

Thankyou so much for all your imput. I have in my hand ready for battle tomorrow copies of the small business rate exemption letters for all the years I have been storing my stuff there. The place is classed as storage and has a different property reference number to the one on the enfocement notice so I have no idea how it has all come about. I am just glad that my friend came up trumps.
Will let you guys know how it goes tommorrow. Thank you all again

lincroft1710 · 27 August 2018 at 2:35PM

Bert, something I should have picked up earlier.

You say the amount demanded is £16K and current Rateable Value is £880. The 2018/19 business rate multiplier is just under 50p and was around 40p in 2010. Unless the current RV is considerably less that in previous revaluations, the amount that should be owing should be considerably less than £16K. No doubt they will have added court costs, but cannot see they would exceed the amount owed.

I note what you have said about small business rate exemption letters. Were these addressed to you or your friend? Regarding the different reference numb.ers, it may indicate a different property or may not

lincroft1710 · 31 August 2018 at 4:25PM

Did you get the matter resolved?

Non domestic rates bill not my debt

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