Retail PCN for very brief stops

Northernlad101 · 17 July 2019 at 11:33PM

Hi,

I have received two PCNs from Parking Control Solutions for stopping in Cobalt Central retail car park to drop a pupil off (I’m a driving instructor) on two occasions a couple of days apart. The Reason for Issue is given as “no stopping”, on private land where no stopping, parking, or waiting is permitted etc.

I appealed unsuccessfully although I should probably have done more research before doing that! However I had read enough to know I should not identify my self as the driver, so they only have me as keeper of the car so far.

The paperwork I’ve received from PCS includes images for each incident, showing that each time the car was positioned beside a paved area, on/near double yellow lines on the “road” through the car park. There was no other moving traffic about, and ample space for other vehicles to get past. There are clear signs around the car park. The two images for one incident are timed 20 seconds apart, and for the other there are three images showing the car was present for 3 minutes.

I was there briefly with insufficient time to see the signs, and I was in the car the whole time. How long does a vehicle have to be there to justify a PCN? On what grounds should I appeal to POPLA about this?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Redx · 17 July 2019 at 11:37PM

do you have a popla code ?

if yes, read post #3 of the newbies faq sticky thread near the top of this forum

download and read the BPA CoP for info on BPA grace periods etc

as for the profession of the driver, I would also download and read the IPC CoP as well, because these companies infest thousands of car parks , airports, ports and railway stations etc, so the chances of repeat issues is a daily hazard

when the MHCLG CoP arrives later this year, I would download that and read it too

Coupon-mad · 18 July 2019 at 1:06AM

I’m a driving instructor

Ooh, please stick around and learn where you can/can't park on private land and make sure your pupils get a snippet of your knowledge about this scam, in future. If people were better informed then they simply would not be at much risk of any form of PCN.

If you were dropping pupils off, surely THEY drove in and parked...?

MistyZ · 18 July 2019 at 7:33AM

I doubt very much that the signs are adequate. For a start they are highly unlikely to give the necessarily instant message that PCNs may result from dropping someone off!

Do read up on Grace Periods. 3 minutes is well within the BPA CoP's period for deciding whether to stay or go.

Did the passenger want to be dropped off at the retail park in order to go shopping? If so, this might make an interesting landowner complaint ...

Northernlad101 · 19 July 2019 at 11:36AM

While my pupil asked to be dropped off there and he did indeed drive in to the car park, I allowed him to do so and told him where to stop. So I would consider it unfair to dump this on him. I'd certainly lose both him and his partner as pupils. :-)

The_Deep · 19 July 2019 at 11:38AM

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Northernlad101 · 19 July 2019 at 11:42AM

That's my appeal done, on the grounds that the time I was there was well inside the grace period of 10 mins on the BPA's CoP. The driver could be accused of not parking in a legitimate bay, but I've said that the pupil had not learnt how to do that, and I was unaware of there being a charging regime in the car park so the car was parked considerately leaving plenty of room for other vehicles to pass. So hopefully this will be the end of it. Even if I'm unsuccessful, I'll push it much further but I doubt they would do that.

Quentin · 19 July 2019 at 11:47AM

If/when unsuccessful come back to the FAQ for advice on the debt collection stage

After a popla rejection you are in the wait and see stage

They have 6 years to start legal proceedings against you

Northernlad101 · 19 July 2019 at 11:47AM

After complaining to the landowner and getting no response, my next stop was my MP. I even got a call from his researcher as they were unaware that there was such a charging regime in his constituency! He did his bit, but unsuccessfully, but he is aware of the situation.

Redx · 19 July 2019 at 1:02PM

A moot point but both you and your pupils should be reading and following signs, which my instructor made me read over 40 years ago

I am amazed that none of you read them, especially when it's the same on council car parks as well as road signs, a lesson for you all, even on private car parks, it's also good to read any CoP as well as the highway code

It also appears to be forbidding signage, like a no right turn sign

Let's hope the BPA Cop wins out

Coupon-mad · 20 July 2019 at 12:37AM

Northernlad101 wrote: »

While my pupil asked to be dropped off there and he did indeed drive in to the car park, I allowed him to do so and told him where to stop. So I would consider it unfair to dump this on him. I'd certainly lose both him and his partner as pupils. :-)

Where did I say to dump it on him? You misunderstand. I never said to name the driver(s) each time, but I was giving you a point to mention at POPLA.

That's my appeal done, on the grounds that the time I was there was well inside the grace period of 10 mins on the BPA's CoP. The driver could be accused of not parking in a legitimate bay, but I've said that the pupil had not learnt how to do that, and I was unaware of there being a charging regime in the car park so the car was parked considerately leaving plenty of room for other vehicles to pass. So hopefully this will be the end of it. Even if I'm unsuccessful, I'll push it much further but I doubt they would do that.

I appealed unsuccessfully although I should probably have done more research before doing that!

Errrm...you've literally just repeated the error at POPLA stage.

Please tell us exactly what you just rushed into the POPLA appeal and which boxes did you tick? Oh dear. POPLA appals are not done like this on this forum, did you not read any examples in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread first?

Nothing about no landowner authority?

Nothing about the POFA and the fact YOU didn't park the car?

Retail PCN for very brief stops

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