TV Licencing Bullies

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  • littleboo
    littleboo Posts: 1,499 Forumite
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    The TV licensing web site makes it very clear that online services are included in live TV. The reception method is irrelevant.
  • giraffe69
    giraffe69 Posts: 3,558 Forumite
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    In our flat we have no TV and we don't watch on a laptop either so no need for a licence. Choice 1 is to put up with their silly letter and declare around every two years we do not need a licence. If we do that they go away. The alternative it to engage further and get stroppy. I'm all for being up for a fight when there is something to be gained but I don't see there is here so I go quietly.
    If someone calls (they haven't yet in around 7 years) they won't get invited in for tea and cakes.
  • oldernonethewiser
    oldernonethewiser Posts: 1,775 Forumite
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    giraffe69 wrote: »
    In our flat we have no TV and we don't watch on a laptop either so no need for a licence. Choice 1 is to put up with their silly letter and declare around every two years we do not need a licence. If we do that they go away. The alternative it to engage further and get stroppy. I'm all for being up for a fight when there is something to be gained but I don't see there is here so I go quietly.
    If someone calls (they haven't yet in around 7 years) they won't get invited in for tea and cakes.


    Choice three is to ignore completely and have nothing to do with them, even if they do call.
    Things that are differerent: draw & drawer, brought & bought, loose & lose, dose & does, payed & paid


  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,156 Forumite
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    Fairyliquid wrote: »
    Thanks,

    But France24 has catchup programmes and documentaries so no different to ITV Hub? There is also the live channel of course, understand that is off limits.
    Okay - so you can watch the catch-up/video-on-demand elements but not the broadcasts (wherever they appear, including online).
    Really depends on the definition of 'Broadcast TV'. The way you (not personally of course) have defined it means almost anything you want it to mean. I still say that if it's not through an aerial then it's not broadcast. BBC3 is done exclusively through the iplayer anyway.
    The definition I use is completely definitive (except for the various minor exemptions, and some confusing stuff over foreign internet streaming).

    It says that you need a Licence to:-

    - Receive or record TV channels via traditional means (Satellite, Terrestrial or Cable TV).

    - Watch those same channels via online streaming.

    - Watch or download BBC content from BBC iPlayer. (But you can watch BBC content on other platforms and you can use iPlayer for S4C and Radio).
  • Fairyliquid
    Fairyliquid Posts: 16 Forumite
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    Cornucopia wrote: »
    Unfortunately, this is a common misconception (not helped by TV Licensing themselves using the misleading term "Live TV"). What they actually mean is Broadcast TV - that is any TV channel that can be received using a Satellite dish, Terrestrial aerial or Cable TV. It also includes the Internet streamed versions of those channels.


    You cannot watch France24 without a TV Licence because it is a Broadcast TV channel.


    No - that is fine because it isn't a broadcast channel (assuming that it isn't).

    I agree and I've had a read of the documents from the gov website and I accept that any delivery method counts. What is not clear to me is when sourcing from an offshore origin.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,156 Forumite
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    edited 16 January 2020 at 4:52PM
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    Fairyliquid wrote: »
    I agree and I've had a read of the documents from the gov website and I accept that any delivery method counts. What is not clear to me is when sourcing from an offshore origin.

    Unfortunately, that remains a grey area.

    - If the material is delivered via Satellite from overseas (even if it is specialist equipment/large dish) then that definitely requires a TV Licence.

    - If the material is delivered via Internet streaming then the legislation suggests that it does not require a Licence, and the TV Licensing website confirmed this up to March 2016. After that date, their advice changed to say that any TV channel worldwide needed a Licence to watch its internet stream.

    There doesn't seem any way to resolve the second question short of being taken to Court.
  • jasonwatkins
    jasonwatkins Posts: 2,420 Forumite
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    oldernonethewiser wrote: »
    Choice three is to ignore completely and have nothing to do with them, even if they do call.

    This is really the best approach. They'll inevitably fail to identify themselves when they call so the only words you have to say to them are "Who are you?".

    When they identify themselves, simply shut the door.

    No need to engage with them on any level.
  • abudabi
    abudabi Posts: 84 Forumite
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    edited 16 January 2020 at 8:51PM
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    Neil_Jones wrote: »
    On the contrary:
    https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/telling-us-you-dont-need-a-tv-licence

    With regards to name, well its hardly going to be a state secret considering if you're registered to vote and you've lived at your current address for more than a year it'll be on the electoral register?

    And you're not "buying" a service. You get the TV signals regardless of whether you buy a licence or not and there is strictly speaking nothing to stop you using a TV without one. Just that if you get caught using it and you needed one, you can be expected to get your chequebook out for an amount that may be up to 6x the cost of the licence in the first place.

    I've been researching a bit and there seems to be a hell of a lot of confusion about what's legal and what isn't, I made a declaration at beginning of this month that I don't watch live tv or use I player whether recorded or live, I called them and said I watch YouTube and sometimes itv hub catch up but no live tv , I also don't record anything or download it,
    Then I saw on YouTube various vids saying you have to detune your tv and unplug aerial cables or even cut them and get rid of tv etc etc , this seems like cracking a nut with a sledgehammer approach when I googled it this seems related to the Republic of Ireland stating that if a device is capable of receiving live broadcasts then it needs a tv licence but no mention of the U.K.?
    .this was the law back in the 50s when everyone who had a tv effectively had no choice but to watch live programmes but now with the plethora of choice in media that one can watch it's outdated
    I called tv licencing again today and was explicit about what I watch I told them I have a freesat dish connected to a humax set top box via my tv and when I switch it on it comes up with a homepage and a drop down choice to watch on demand , I click on that and then click on the YouTube app and watch YouTube programmes or click on itv hub and watch those recorded programmes , he said so long as I don't watch live tv its fine and can't be proven what I watch ? He also said it would be best if I could unplug the aerial but I said I don't have an aerial only a satellite dish and it connected via a hdmi cable which I can't unplug ? He said that's fine he understood and was very pleasant, I recorded the call for future use if needed , I'm still wary of letting licencing inspectors in without a warrant as I don't want any lies being told, but I suppose I could record that as well ?
    I will however if they call say they're welcome in my house with a warrant as I have nothing to hide but due to the stories I've heard I'd rather an officer was present, I won't sign anything and if they try to keep me in conversation I will just say good day and close the door ?
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,156 Forumite
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    edited 16 January 2020 at 6:58PM
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    AFAIK, you do not need a satellite dish connection to obtain catch-up content using a FreeSat box. I'd recommend disconnecting it (just unplugging the dish lead from the back of the Set-top box) if you can. (The dish lead will be a round cable with a round metal plug on the end - there may be two such leads if the STB is configured for recording). There's no need to physically remove the dish from the house or cut any cables.

    The essence of the law is that it is an offence to Receive TV channels and to use iPlayer. If you are not receiving TV channels or viewing iPlayer then you definitely don't need a TV Licence.

    I've always found TVL HQ staff to be reasonably helpful, polite and accepting of people's right to live without a TV Licence if they meet the necessary criteria. The visiting staff have a rather different reputation, and I personally wouldn't enter into conversation with them, especially if I was still unsure as to the equipment configuration or the detail of the rules.

    You are free to record TVL staff on your premises if you wish. Generally, they will leave if you start filming them (but there's no consequences for you if they do).
  • oldernonethewiser
    oldernonethewiser Posts: 1,775 Forumite
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    abudabi wrote: »
    I've been researching a bit and there seems to be a hell of a lt of confusion about what's legal and what isn't, I made a declaration at beginning of this month that I don't watch live tv or use I player whether recorded or live, I called them and said I watch YouTube and sometimes itv hub catch up but no live tv , I also don't record anything or download it,
    Then I saw on YouTube various vids saying you have to detune your tv and unplug aerial cables etc etc , when I googled it this seems related to the Republic of Ireland stating that if a device is capable of receiving live broadcasts then it needs a to licence but no mention of the U.K. .this was the law back in the 50s when everyone who had a to effectively had no choice but to watch live programmes but now with the plethora of choice in media that one can watch it's outdated
    I called tv licencing again and was explicit about what I watch I told them I have a freesat dish connected to a humax set top box via my tv and when I switch it on it comes up with a homepage and a drop down choice to watch on demand , I click on that and then click on the YouTube app and watch YouTube programmes or click on itv hub and watch those recorded programmes , he said so long as I don't watch live to its fine and can't be proven what I watch ? He also said it would be best if I could unplug the aerial but I said I don't have an aerial only a satellite dish and it connected via a hdmi cable which I can't unplug ? He said that's fine he understood and was very pleasant, I recorded the call for future use if needed , I'm still wary of letting licencing inspectors in without a warrant as I don't want any lies being told, but I suppose I could record that as well ?


    Do not let them in, do not speak to them, unless you need to confirm who they are, do not engage with them at all if possible.


    Simple. :)
    Things that are differerent: draw & drawer, brought & bought, loose & lose, dose & does, payed & paid


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