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ANPR fault - Scotland
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bertha73
Posts: 11 Forumite
I've received a PCN from Horizon Parking for "Exceeded Maximum Stay Period (ANPR)" when my daughter was dropped off at work on a retail estate with a car park operated by Horizon in Perth and then picked up again after the end of her shift 6 hours later. Evidently the ANPR cameras failed to capture the vehicle leaving the car park or entering it again in the evening.
We live 0.25 miles from the retail estate, so it should be obvious that the car wouldn't be left there for 6 hours, but the only evidence to show that it wasn't there all day is a GPS track from a portable satnav that shows a journey from where the car is normally kept just before the end of her shift and waiting for 10 minutes in the car park before returning. It's a portable satnav, rather than one built into the car, so on its own it doesn't prove that the car made the journey.
My daughter should be able to provide evidence that her shift start and end times coincided with what Horizon claim to be the entry and exit times from the car park. But I'm not sure how I go about demonstrating that their cameras have failed to capture the vehicle exiting in the morning and arriving again in the evening.
I gather that POPLA isn't available in Scotland, so I'm worried that if my appeal as registered keeper is rejected I won't have anywhere else to go. So do I just ignore this letter and in the event that they eventually take me to court will the GPS trail and daughter's evidence be sufficient, or should I write to Horizon using their online appeal form now and send them a PDF of the GPS and daughter's shift times?
We live 0.25 miles from the retail estate, so it should be obvious that the car wouldn't be left there for 6 hours, but the only evidence to show that it wasn't there all day is a GPS track from a portable satnav that shows a journey from where the car is normally kept just before the end of her shift and waiting for 10 minutes in the car park before returning. It's a portable satnav, rather than one built into the car, so on its own it doesn't prove that the car made the journey.
My daughter should be able to provide evidence that her shift start and end times coincided with what Horizon claim to be the entry and exit times from the car park. But I'm not sure how I go about demonstrating that their cameras have failed to capture the vehicle exiting in the morning and arriving again in the evening.
I gather that POPLA isn't available in Scotland, so I'm worried that if my appeal as registered keeper is rejected I won't have anywhere else to go. So do I just ignore this letter and in the event that they eventually take me to court will the GPS trail and daughter's evidence be sufficient, or should I write to Horizon using their online appeal form now and send them a PDF of the GPS and daughter's shift times?
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Comments
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Read the above newbies sticky Q&A For Scotland first.The world is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good. Napoleon0
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Most important that in Scotland that the driver remains unknown.
Adjust you post to reflect this.
The PPC will reject an appeal, that is what scammers do.
Have a word with Pete Wishart MP, Perth and North Perthshire
There is a new bill waiting to become law that will cover all the UK and Pete has been very verbal about parking scammers in Perth
https://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/pete-wishart/1440
In the meantime, unless the PPC knows who was driving, just ignore.
Ignore all and every debt collector who spout rubbish0 -
Thanks. I don't want particularly to complain to the retailer - there are multiple units on the estate rather than just one big supermarket and the only one I would legitimately be able to complain to would be my daughter's employer, she's understandably not keen on me doing that.
My main concern would be will the Sheriff's Court accept my GPS data and daughter's confirmation of shifts as sufficient evidence to show that I wasn't in the car park all day long? I don't see that addressed by the FAQs.0 -
Thanks. I don't want particularly to complain to the retailer - there are multiple units on the estate rather than just one big supermarket and the only one I would legitimately be able to complain to would be my daughter's employer, she's understandably not keen on me doing that.
My main concern would be will the Sheriff's Court accept my GPS data and daughter's confirmation of shifts as sufficient evidence to show that I wasn't in the car park all day long? I don't see that addressed by the FAQs.
ANPR is known for not being reliable. As long as you can prove you were elsewhere within the time period they state, they then have to prove otherwise. Find out who the landowner is and request cancellation with your proof.0 -
The image of the car entering the car park clearly shows the driver and passenger. The image of the car leaving the car park is taken in the dark and the occupants cannot be identified.0
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The image of the car entering the car park clearly shows the driver and passenger. The image of the car leaving the car park is taken in the dark and the occupants cannot be identified.
Don't worry about it ... the exit pics would be difficult for them to prove.
Just make sure the driver is never mentioned0 -
You don't see it addressed specifically in the sticky because we've never dealt with a Sheriff Court case as there really haven't been any for just a single ticket. There have been a very small number of high interest ones (Carly Mackie for £24k's worth of tickets), but never one to our knowledge for 60 quid. And if you follow the one-sentence advice about Scotland it will never reach the Sheriff Court.My main concern would be will the Sheriff's Court accept my GPS data and daughter's confirmation of shifts as sufficient evidence to show that I wasn't in the car park all day long? I don't see that addressed by the FAQs.
We do deal with a large number of cases in the England and Wales small claims court, but even if you asked us your question about a Judge in E/W, we'd have no basis to say one way or the other. Each case revolves on its own individual details, and each Judge revolves on his own chair.
Come back and ask us if it gets to the Sheriff Court, but if it does, it will be of your own making - so do heed the advice of beamerguy and Hasbeen above.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
The whole industry is a scam, relying on threats of court, and public ignorance of the Law, A bill is currently before parliament which will regulate the scammers, many of whom are ex-clampers.
Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.
This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.
Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct
The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.
Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.
All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Have you found the sticky thread for NEWBIES yet and read the very specific advice for Scotland?
Do this before you decide to do anything else.
Please do complain to your MP, especially if it is Mr Wishart. He is well versed in this unregulated scam and wants it stopped.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0
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