How to buy Tencent shares

Options
I can see you can buy ADR in Alibaba via NYSE: BABA in USD

I had seen a Tencent holdings ADR OTCMKTS: TCEHY. But looking onto this it seems to be "over-the-counter securities" which seems to be a broker-dealer network as opposed to a centralised exchange like the Nasdaq and NYSE

"pink sheet platform has no requirements from the SEC to file financial information, and for this reason, are seen as higher risk securities. Pink Sheets is a private listing company for over-the-counter securities."

There seems to be warnings on liquidity, but seem to apply to small companies

On a given day, the total dollar volume can exceed $1.2 billion with over 6 billion shares trading hands. Companies listed via pink sheets include:

-Tencent Holdings LTD (TCEHY), the Chinese multimedia company
-Nestle SA (NSRGY), the food and beverage giant
-Bayer A.G. (BAYRY), a health care company

Large companies such as Tencent Holdings have a significantly higher trading volume than smaller companies making the larger companies more liquid and easier to trade. For example, March 22, 2019, Tencent Holdings had 4.2 million shares traded while a small pink sheet company called Pacific Software (PFSF) only traded 200 shares for the same day with a daily price range of only 20 cents.


Has anyone dealt with this market or purchased these Chinese tech companies other ways?

Comments

  • doe808
    doe808 Posts: 452 Forumite
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Options
    Yeah, via SMT.



    Otherways all seemed to complex
    Total - £340.00

    wins : £7.50 Virgin Vouchers, Nikon Coolpixs S550 x 2, I-Tunes Vouchers, £5 Esprit Voucher, Big Snap 2 (x2), Alaska Seafood book
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Post of the Month
    edited 22 July 2019 at 10:02PM
    Options
    I have it in both my ISA and SIPP, it's a Hong Kong listed stock (ticker is 0700).

    I wouldn't buy shares via OTC settlement in the US when you can buy them on a proper primary market. However, HK is not the most popular trading venue for UK retail customers, so depending on your broker (if they offer it at all), you may not be able to place the trade online and may need to phone it in.

    And as the market hours don't overlap with UK, US or Europe, your broker may not have traders working HK hours to give you a live quote before you accept the trade at a known price. It's likely you will just have to leave an order to deal at market best when the market opens. Again broker-dependent, the fact it is not GP priced or UK listed may mean you can't place a stop or limit order, but your broker will probably outline your options on their website or trading desk phone support.

    *Edit to clarify: my comments were for Tencent which has its listing in HK.
    For BABA which went through an IPO process and is properly quoted with decent trading volumes on NYSE (albeit the shares are ADRs rather than common stock), I hold that through NY. If I was buying Nestle as mentioned in your example, I would buy it in Europe rather than some OTC US-accessible version (though I don't have that direct, only via collectives).
  • stphnstevey
    stphnstevey Posts: 3,224 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Options
    Thanks Bowlhead

    I was looking for exposure to China Tech (Mainly Tencent, Alibaba, and Baidu)

    As mentioned, Alibaba and Baidu can be bought as ADRs in USD

    Are there any other ways of alternatively owning these as maybe a large proportion of a fund, Trust or Tracker? SMT was mentioned and I saw elsewhere MSCI CHINA INDEX

    SMT appears to be 6% Tencent and 6% Alibaba. But also has 10% Amazon and 3% Netflix, which I already have significant exposure to

    MSCI CHINA INDEX seems to be 15% Tencent, 15% Alibaba ADR, 2% Baidu ADR and 1.5% JD.com
  • tin586
    tin586 Posts: 98 Forumite
    First Anniversary
    Options
    Another vote for SMT here, which I have long used for exposure to China tech.
    The MSCI China ETFs (indeed any China ETFs) do not generally have any fees advantage over SMT (those ones cheaper than SMT are very small or synthetic).
    Your concern re over-exposure to the FANGs is noted, but could be addressed through a portfolio weighting adjustment (?).
    I basically agree with doe808 above that SMT is least complex option.
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Post of the Month
    edited 23 July 2019 at 9:39PM
    Options
    I don't see that using a China index just because it partly holds some of the things you like, is particularly useful. What about the other things you have to hold, to get the things you want?

    The way you describe the index, it has about 33% in four stocks to which you'd like to get exposure, but is skewing the weights somewhat hilariously towards two of the four, so that you have literally ten times as much money in the first two (0700, BABA) as you do in the second two (BIDU, JD). And then having got a third of your money allocated to those four things (but mostly just two of those things), you have two thirds of your money in things that you don't know much about and haven't mentioned a particular desire to hold.

    The index is majorly skewed towards certain industries: 70% in communications plus consumer discretionary plus banks/financials. But more than half the communications and consumer discretionary sector allocation comes from just Tencent and Alibaba. Are Chinese banks and insurance companies a particularly good bet? At 22% of the index, they'll represent a third of the money that you don't put into the four stocks you mention.

    The problem with buying a single-country emerging-markets tracker with a heavy skew to certain industries, just to get access to a small number of assets that you like the sound of, is that you get all the dross in the index which people are buying just because it exists and is represented in the index. And you are getting it just because you want to gamble on China tech-driven businesses being better than Korean or Taiwanese or Japanese or US tech driven businesses.

    Some might say that buying a load of stuff you probably don't want or need, just to follow through on a gamble when buying some stuff you think you might like or need, can be a false economy (pun partially intended).

    SMT is one way to access a few shares you like, bundled with some other things that the SMT managers like; and they will have some volatile stocks and polarising punts among their portfolio, along with a large dose of companies which are not listed on a stock market at all.

    MSCI China is one way to access a few shares you like, along with a bunch of other stuff that some people might like and a lot of people have bought simply because it exists and they are throwing money at China generally so it lands on the biggest companies.

    An actively managed global emerging markets fund is one way to get somewhat less access to the stuff you like while having your money spread over places which might share some opportunities and risks with China while also giving some geographic diversity away from China and from developed markets.

    It's horses for courses really. I wouldn't say SMT is a default option for China Tech because it contains plenty of stuff that is not China Tech, as does a China Index, as do any number of global or EM funds which have a couple of China brands at a noticeable weighting.
  • SammenForLivet2
    Options
    If your happy to take ZAR risk, one option could be to potentially buy Naspers, which still have a substantial (but reducing) share in Tencent. Done well with Naspers over the years.
    Thank you all for helping me make my day by saving money!
  • stphnstevey
    stphnstevey Posts: 3,224 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Options
    Further researching this, it seems:

    ADRs
    - TCEHY in $ on the OTC Market
    - NNN1 in euros on several European markets

    Ordinary Shares
    - 0700 in HKD on the SEHK
    - NNND in euros on several European markets (I believe are ordinary shares, correct me if wrong, but it does not seem easy to determine)

    For me I think I will go with NNND, as ordinary shares they should have voting rights and dividends and hopefully not be susceptible to Chinese government policy which could decide the ADRs are worth nothing. Also, I think I am likely to use left over euros from trades more than HKG.

    If anyone can suggest a cheap way of buying shares in euros it would be useful. I was thinking Fineco maybe cheapest?
  • stphnstevey
    stphnstevey Posts: 3,224 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Options
    If your happy to take ZAR risk, one option could be to potentially buy Naspers, which still have a substantial (but reducing) share in Tencent. Done well with Naspers over the years.

    Can anyone explain what has happened previously with Naspers and what they attempt to achieve with the new Dutch listing?

    It appears the remaining 31% share Naspers has in Tencent (reduced from previously) is worth $133 billion, where as Naspers itself 1.42 trillion rand ($100 billion) market capitalisation, effectively meaning the other parts of Naspers are worth nothing

    So does that mean Naspers is currently a discount way of buying Tencent?

    Naspers apparently will retain 75% stake in the new Dutch listing

    How will this work out for current Naspers holders?
    Is the new Dutch listing worth considering?
  • tin586
    tin586 Posts: 98 Forumite
    First Anniversary
    Options
    Only if there is a clear path to closing the discount and unlocking the value, which is not obvious to me.

    The problem with Naspers is that insiders hold an unlisted A class of shares that allow them to maintain control.

    And Naspers will also control the new Dutch entity by keeping a 75% stake.

    In short, there are better ways of holding Tencent than by using any Naspers entity as the vehicle.
  • snowqueen555
    snowqueen555 Posts: 1,521 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    Options
    I have bought Tencent stock priced in Euros, I would've bought them using Degiro.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards