Free solar panel discussion

GeeBeeEl · 4 August 2010 at 1:06AM

Poosmate wrote: »

Nope! It's paid for by the energy suppliers.

The Government used to pay grants to people to have this work done but most, if not all of the grants have dried up because people can earn cashback from the energy suppliers buying the power off the people with the solar installations.

Sorry but you are misinformed Poosmate. It is a Government backed guaranteed 25yr incentive driven by our commitments to meet EU Co² emissions reduction of 26% by 2020 ( from the 1990 level ) , and an 80% reduction in all greenhouse gas emissions by 2050

Poosmate wrote: »

Ask yourself, why would the Government pay you for electricity you are giving to the National Grid? The energy suppliers charge people for that energy so if it worked the way you say, that energy would be generated once and paid for twice.

Its an incentive to meet EU commitments.
Why would an energy company pay you 41.3p per kWh for energy you generate and use yourself ?
It's not really about selling back to the national grid.
You get paid whether you sell it back to the grid or use it yourself.

Poosmate wrote: »

It's paid for by the suppliers.

Nope, I'm afraid it's paid for by the taxpayers.

Have a read of this for clarification.
h t t p : // w w w .
guardian.co.uk/money/2010/feb/06/solar-power-bright-investment

From the article.
"If the government offered to pay you £1,000 a year for the next 25 years, in return for an up-front investment of £12,500, you'd snap it up in a second. Well, that's pretty much the deal on offer this week after the government finally revealed what it will pay those who install electricity generating solar panels – in and around their homes – through the new "Feed-in Tariffs" (FITs)."

Aaagh · 4 August 2010 at 1:10AM

We pay £23 per month for electric. I'm very conscious of what we use - no tumble drier or electric heater, everything turned off when not in use, I don't even use a hairdryer unless I'm in a hurry.

The idea of solar panels really appeals to me but I don't have £12k plus to shell out on them and don't think it would be worth my while otherwise. Why should Isis or whoever benefit because I am careful and others are wasteful?

I think I will have to wait until the price comes down substanstially.

Poosmate · 4 August 2010 at 1:11AM

GeeBeeEl wrote: »

But surely you would be better off purchasing them yourself and getting the circa 8% tax free index linked return on the investment, rather than a financial institution pocketing the cash whilst using your roof ?

Or if you can't free up the circa £13k, wait for the cheap green loans scheme to kick in, It still doesn't cost you a bean, someone else doesn't end up essentially 'owning' your roof for 25 years and you get the financial benefit of the cash-back once it's paid off ( which is also done via the cashback scheme so you don't need to find any money yourself )
eg:
h t t p : / / w w w .yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-Home-made-power-move.6436873.jp

The companies are offering to install the panels for free to those who possibly would never have them fitted otherwise. The company gets the benefit of free roofspace and the FiTs payments and the owner/ocupier gets the use of the free electricity (if they can use it when it's being generated).

With the grants gone now, the systems are going to take (probably) twice as long to pay for themselves. So whereas before with a grant you'd be paying maybe £4k-£7k and it would pay for itself within about 5-10 years depending on all the variables, you'll now be paying £8k-£14k (plus possibly) so it will take much longer to pay for itself.

These systems will save you a bit of dosh year on year and you'll earn a bit of dosh year on year, but it's a long term investment and not a system that will allow you to go completely off grid.

Poo

Poosmate · 4 August 2010 at 1:16AM

Sorry GeeBee but I have to go to bed, I have work tomorrow. I'll be back tomorrow though to continue this conversation.

I would highly recommend you read the other thread on the Green and Ethical Money savings Board. I bumped it a little while ago so it should still be on the first page, I put the link in my post on page 1 anyway.

Night all

Poo

camaj · 4 August 2010 at 2:21AM

Does it matter who's "paying" for it? It's still a good thing and it's even more of an incentive to be part of the scheme.

Clearly it's better to go it alone but a lot of people, apparently, dislike high upfront payments even if the returns are fantastic so schemes like this give people a risk-free way of taking part. Even if the whole thing collapsed you'd still have had cheaper electricity until then, although the article suggests that wouldn't happen

John_Pierpoint · 4 August 2010 at 3:33AM

GeeBeeEl wrote: »

Sorry Poosmate, but you are mistaken.
It comes from the taxpayer ( via the Government )
It is a Government incentive.

It is only a government incentive in that the government has forced the utility companies to pay it.

The government has international treaty undertakings to reduce CO2 but no money.

It is thought that it will increase the price of electricity by about 3%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2010/mar/09/george-monbiot-bet-solar-pv

Here are some other threads on the subject of PV generation:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2416423

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2244389

shecos · 4 August 2010 at 7:09AM

I have electricity only in my bungalow and heating is with night storage heaters. If you only pay for electricity after dark, obviously night storage heaters would not save anything - however, could the storage heaters be changed to heat up in the daytime only instead of at night?

joeberks · 4 August 2010 at 7:57AM

I assume that all quotations are for a standard roof, what if it was not standard ie., extended roof, double fitted panels.

Would I as a household get an increase payment return?

juinthemoney · 4 August 2010 at 8:05AM

be very careful with this free offer!
firstly as others have said, they will 'own' your roof for 25 years
they will get all the main benefit of these panels, the FIT payment
selling your house with a contract like this in place is going to cause probelms
finally ask yourself, how much electricity are you using on the bright summer days, when the highest energy output is available, as the energy can't be stored
you do get 3p/unit by selling the electricity not used back to the grid but the amount of money you get back is small. In fact it's not measured unless you have the correct meter so it's assumed that 50% of your electricity output will be fed to the grid and the 3p/unit will be based on your projected annual output based on your system size.
The main benefit to these systems is the FIT payment making a 10 year return on your investment (8_10% tax free but no capital return).
sorry to be a party pooper but think very carefully before committing yourself to something you may well regret, in particular as the price of panels will come down and the systems will be more affordable in the future when you may be in a position to buy the system yourself and benefit from the FIT payments
incidently, the current FIT rate is fixed for 20+years and will increase with inflation, the lower FIT rate will be introduced in april 2012 and will be paid only on systems installed after that date
It's the FIT payment that is the main driver to making PV panels attractive not the small saving you would make on your electricity bill

dapri · 4 August 2010 at 8:06AM

Interesting comments in this thread already - free solar panels is a very attractive option - however the savings for the homeowner are relatively small compared to the company's benefit.

I believe the scheme provides the Feed in Tarrif (FiT) 41.3 pence per unit generated - directly to the scheme owner, the only saving passed on to the homeowner is 3 pence per unit for each unit exported - plus lower import costs - this amount is dependent on the homeowners current tarrif - probably amounts to about 12 pence per unit savings due to lower leccy bills the amount will depend largely on the size of the array of panels.

Panels are yours to keep after 25 years - the same date that the Feed in Tarrif contract ends - unless a new tarrif is set up the real benefit from installing solar - the FiT payment - will cease. So in my view - if you really cannot afford or finance the solar there is a modest benefit with this scheme - but if you could find a way to finance an installation the return on investment is around 9% per annum so the system will pay for itself in around 11 years leaving 14 years income from the FiT to come - probably over £12K for an average system.

Solar works - I have a system installed and receive my FiT on my 25 year contract, I also get 3 pence for exporting about half of what the system generates AND I get lower leccy bills.

The current FiT level of 41.3 pence per unit generated is set for those insytalling and registering systems before April 2012, it is linked to RPI, guaranteed by the UK government and tax free to individuals and community projects.

For people joining the scheme AFTER April 2012 the FiT rate will drop by around 8% each year for new subscribers only - so get those panels in now and lock into the best rates before April 2012.

Free solar panel discussion

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