Murray International

Drp8713 · 20 June 2018 at 7:35PM

What are everyones thoughts?

When I chose to invest it seemed to tick a lot of boxes.

Concentrated Equity Portfolio (only 50 shares)
10% in fixed income as a diversifier
Good yield
Globally diviersified
Low cost
Good allocation to long term growth areas (EM and Asia).

However I feel his strategy is a little muddled and it is effecting performance.

He invests cautiously given the new teritory post QE ,wary of company debt, and aims for a higher yield, but then invests 40% of the portfolio in volatile Asia/EMs and more EM debt, it feels like its high risk meets low risk, jack of all trades.

As a cautious investor, who is 90% in equities (slight oxymoron there), he has a total return less than the much lower equity weighted Personal Assets Trust over 5 years. So has failed on that count. As you get more volatility and less return.

His call to mostly avoid the US may we wise long term, but if he misses out on 50%+ gains waiting for a 40% fall it seems a bit stubborn. Plus are EM really going to hold out better than the US in a global downturn?

It is stone dead 4th quartile over 3m, 6m, 1yr, 3yrs and 5 years.

I feel like I want to hold it through a downturn to give him the benefit of the doubt, however he lost 18%, the same as the benchmark did in 2008 so didnt fair any better.

Are people sticking with Bruce for the long term for a bit of a contrarian view?

BLB53 · 20 June 2018 at 7:44PM

I was a fan for a while but like many actively managed funds, theis came unstuck a few years back. I have since moved on to Vanguard Lifestrategy 60 and no regrets.

Stout tries to second guess the global economy, especially USA and is far too gloomy/pesimistic - underweight in US has not been good for the past decade.

masonic · 20 June 2018 at 7:51PM

Frankly, it's been extremely challenging not to generate impressive returns over the last decade, regardless of the amount of risk taken. Serious questions need to be asked of those who missed the opportunity.

dividendhero · 20 June 2018 at 8:31PM

Have you considered the new global income kid on the block - HINT from Henderson?

green_man · 20 June 2018 at 9:21PM

I had a spell in Murray in the 90s and did very well, I got in again with about 15 % of my Income ISA a couple of years ago as much as anything because he had been doing so badly for well over a year and just took a bit of a punt on things getting better. Capital value +35% from when I got in. You are right though you need to keep faith and recognise that with his strategy you are likely to see periods of underperformance.

Drp8713 · 20 June 2018 at 10:09PM

Thanks all.

MYI currently makes up 7.5% of my portfolio so im not all in, I will certainly keep it for the time being and keep an eye on progress.

My asset allocation is below, I think its pretty well structured and diversified, so im not going to make any drastic changes. Im investing £1200 a month at the moment so constantly rebalancing with new money.

Global Equities 20% (SMT, MYI, Fundsmith)
Global Small Cap Equities 20% (FCS, TRG, BGS, SLS)
UK Equities 10% (FGT)
EM Equities 10% (FEET)
Property 10% (TRY)
Private Equity 10% (SLPE)
Wealth Preservation 20% (RCP, PNL, SGLN)

Stirfry · 21 June 2018 at 1:36PM

I hold MYI, a lump sum of which was bought back in October at its height. I am currently trying to resist consolidating my losses, but its difficult. Its currently showing a -12% loss. I bought it for dividend income but when the capital loss is greater than the income one has to stop and think have I made a mistake. Should I wait a few months to see if things improve?

Drp8713 · 21 June 2018 at 1:53PM

Stirfry wrote: »

I hold MYI, a lump sum of which was bought back in October at its height. I am currently trying to resist consolidating my losses, but its difficult. Its currently showing a -12% loss. I bought it for dividend income but when the capital loss is greater than the income one has to stop and think have I made a mistake. Should I wait a few months to see if things improve?

Its not losses that bother me, I have losers which I am excited to top up each month as I feel they are well run trusts that im buying at a cheaper price than I did before. Best time to shop is when the sales are on.

I suppose the question is, if we have a 40% crash tomorrow, do you MYI will outperform the market and that the dividends will continue to roll in, because that is pretty much his play.

It is a very different outlook than most, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now. As a diversifier, and a large dividend player (which isnt really something my other trusts focus on), i think it offers some value to my portfolio.

Im going to keep an eye on it carefully though as its safe to say hes not in my good books!

takesyourchances · 21 June 2018 at 2:41PM

I hold MYI and have held through swings from -20% to plus 10% at the moment around -6% for me but continuing to hold and add too as normal. I feel with a lot of the countries it's invested in its a long term hold and pays decent dividends which I use with others reinvesting.

grey_gym_sock · 21 June 2018 at 4:16PM

i've been slowly building a holding in MYI since may 2016 (using income generated inside my S&S ISA, when i'm not doing something else with it), and will continue to build it.

i see the price has now fallen back so that i am almost exactly breaking even, in capital terms (i.e. i've had the dividends on top of that).

it's supposed to be doing a kind of value investing (though also partly going for a higher yield). so i'd expect it to underperform in some periods - value investing is sometimes going to be out of favour. if you're going to "sack" your active fund managers for short-term underperformance, you should stick to trackers instead.

i do mostly stick to trackers. MYI is part of my international (meaning: mostly ex-UK) equities portfolio, most of which is in regional trackers. MYI is 1 of several side parts to this portfolio; all the side parts involve value in 1 form or another.

Murray International

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