Dental Bridge over a gap of 2 missing teeth-Can it be done?

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  • brook2jack
    brook2jack Posts: 4,563 Forumite
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    NHS dentistry is there to secure health. In general that will be done in the most economic way possible.

    In general white fillings will be provided on front teeth only (on adults) and silver (amalgam) fillings on back teeth.

    You may prefer to have a white filling on a back tooth but , in general, you will have to pay for that privately.

    Dentistry has always been provided by independent contractors , other than for community dentists, hospital , prison and military dentists.

    This is just as well because the cost of providing dentistry is very very expensive. A cheap independent NHS practice will cost around £140 plus per hour per room to run. The average treatment cost in total is around £36 per person treated. In a NHS run access centre it is around £450 per person treated.

    In other words if the NHS did take dentistry under its wing without even the cost of buying,equipping the thousands of practices it would cost over ten times more!
  • humptydumptybits
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    I'd hate it if I couldn't find a dentist. To brook2jack and toothsmith can I say most people value and appreciate the work you do. I'm 65, have all my teeth but probably half have fillings. I hate the thought of dentures and see my dentist twice a year and hygienist 4 times a year and work with them in the hope I can avoid dentures.



    The OP is totally ignoring the fact that there is more to making anything than 2 hrs work, you need equipment, premises, insurance as well as the training to do it. Some people can't see the nose on their face.
  • Toothsmith
    Toothsmith Posts: 10,074 Forumite
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    edited 31 October 2018 at 10:43AM
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    The whole industry needs overhauling and put back into proper NHS hands!

    Ok - {waves his magic wand} You're in charge.

    You're going to put dentistry back in 'proper NHS hands'

    How?

    You can have my practice - and the other 10,000 odd in the country. The most recent valuation of mine was just under £300k - so multiply that by 10,000 and that's £30 mil to buy the infrastructure (And mine is just a small practice, so the figure will undoubtedly be much more)

    Or to you take them by force?

    Will you want the £250k building too? Or will you rent that off me?

    Then - you're still going to need me to work in it - so are you going to pay me a salary (Which means I'm paid just the same if I see 3 patients a day or 100) or do you give me some sort of 'target' based income? How much? It would be great to get sick pay for the first time in my career, and holiday pay!

    What if I don't like the deal? Can I leave dentistry and earn money a different way? Can I go abroad instead to work somewhere where my skills are appreciated? Or are you going to change human rights law, take my passport and pay 'minders' to watch over me and make sure I go to work?

    What sort of dentistry do you want me to do for everybody who comes?

    The very best I can do? White fillings everywhere for everybody? Implants when teeth fall out? Everything equally for everybody? They tried this in 1947 when the NHS was set up, and the only treatments were extractions and dentures - and it lasted a year before NHS charges and limits had to be introduced!!

    Or do you make some people more 'worthy' than others? People like you get exactly what they want, and anyone else doesn't? Do you monitor people's sugar intake and toothbrushing and only those with the right 'points' get the good treatments, the rest get extractions & dentures? Who sets the benchmarks? People who 'know' things, or just people who 'believe' they are right?

    Ok Mr Idontlikemondays - over to you. You have the power. How would you do it?
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
  • clairec79
    clairec79 Posts: 2,512 Forumite
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    While there may be some dentist justs out to make money the same as in any profession I don't believe the majority are

    I somehow ended up with a credit to my dental account - the only thing that I could put it down to was I'd had a root filling on a tooth which about a month later caused major problems and I needed to have an extraction (dentist did warn me), all of a sudden I was quite a lot in credit with the dentist (about the level of a root canal treatment), all the receptionist could tell me was I'd paid for something I shouldn't have.

    If they were just out for money they'd have kept what I'd paid them, plus for any other course of treatment, because I was happy to pay
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,478 Forumite
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    My dentist said that bridges are not liked now, as they are too invasive, for 1 gap a maryland bridge may be more suitable.
  • dontlikemondays
    dontlikemondays Posts: 110 Forumite
    edited 6 November 2018 at 8:29PM
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    Toothsmith wrote: »
    Ok - {waves his magic wand} You're in charge.

    You're going to put dentistry back in 'proper NHS hands'

    How?

    You can have my practice - and the other 10,000 odd in the country. The most recent valuation of mine was just under £300k - so multiply that by 10,000 and that's £30 mil to buy the infrastructure (And mine is just a small practice, so the figure will undoubtedly be much more)

    Or to you take them by force?

    Will you want the £250k building too? Or will you rent that off me?

    Then - you're still going to need me to work in it - so are you going to pay me a salary (Which means I'm paid just the same if I see 3 patients a day or 100) or do you give me some sort of 'target' based income? How much? It would be great to get sick pay for the first time in my career, and holiday pay!

    What if I don't like the deal? Can I leave dentistry and earn money a different way? Can I go abroad instead to work somewhere where my skills are appreciated? Or are you going to change human rights law, take my passport and pay 'minders' to watch over me and make sure I go to work?

    What sort of dentistry do you want me to do for everybody who comes?

    The very best I can do? White fillings everywhere for everybody? Implants when teeth fall out? Everything equally for everybody? They tried this in 1947 when the NHS was set up, and the only treatments were extractions and dentures - and it lasted a year before NHS charges and limits had to be introduced!!

    Or do you make some people more 'worthy' than others? People like you get exactly what they want, and anyone else doesn't? Do you monitor people's sugar intake and toothbrushing and only those with the right 'points' get the good treatments, the rest get extractions & dentures? Who sets the benchmarks? People who 'know' things, or just people who 'believe' they are right?

    Ok Mr Idontlikemondays - over to you. You have the power. How would you do it?

    I think you will find "Toothsmith" that I don't have to answer any questions you have for me. To be fair I didn't even read your pathetic excuses for GREED. Yes, that is exactly what the Dentist industry as become.
    Every visit I make to these leeches only makes me more sure it needs a complete overhaul.

    I visited a new dentist regarding my small filling and guess what, they will do it for £59 NHS which is half price the previous dentist wanted for a "private white filling". Will it be white I asked. Yes, was the answer (so far so good I suppose)
    But still £59 for 5 mins work. No wonder "Toothsmith" defends his profession with such gusto!
    A bit like Turkeys Voting For Xmas if he didn't.!

    It's literally like a license to print money. You can almost see the £ signs appear as you walk through the door.

    While there I asked about my 2 tooth gap (the one currently filled by dentures) and guess what?
    They can bridge the gap with a "bridge" but only PRIVATE as it's not under the Band 3, and at a cost of £1400
    £1400 to grind the 2 teeth either side (20 mins) order the set of 4 plastic teeth and fit them (2 mins)
    It's a total disgrace.
    I asked what about a "Maryland Bridge" with the wings attaching to the good teeth. "Oh we can't do that as the last tooth is too big to attach to" How can the wisdom tooth be too big to attach a wing to, what a load of rubbish.

    Also, under Band 3 NHS in plain english is "Bridge Work", so why does everyone say they won't do them. I think we can guess that answer can't we?

    I rest my case. Greed Greed Greed
    If anyone knows of decent fair minded Dentists who go above and beyond their own pockets. You know, like there used to be, before Greed set in, please let me know, maybe I'm wrong or your just too stupid to realise their ripping you off!
  • Twopints
    Twopints Posts: 1,770 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
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    I think people get the treatment they deserve.

    :beer:
    Not even wrong
  • brook2jack
    brook2jack Posts: 4,563 Forumite
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    [QUOTE=dontlikemondays;75014984
    I visited a new dentist regarding my small filling and guess what, they will do it for £59 NHS which is half price the previous dentist wanted for a "private white filling". Will it be white I asked. Yes, was the answer (so far so good I suppose)
    But still £59 for 5 mins work. No wonder "Toothsmith" defends his profession with such gusto!
    A bit like Turkeys Voting For Xmas if he didn't.!

    It's literally like a license to print money. You can almost see the £ signs appear as you walk through the door.

    While there I asked about my 2 tooth gap (the one currently filled by dentures) and guess what?
    They can bridge the gap with a "bridge" but only PRIVATE as it's not under the Band 3, and at a cost of £1400
    £1400 to grind the 2 teeth either side (20 mins) order the set of 4 plastic teeth and fit them (2 mins)
    It's a total disgrace.
    I asked what about a "Maryland Bridge" with the wings attaching to the good teeth. "Oh we can't do that as the last tooth is too big to attach to" How can the wisdom tooth be too big to attach a wing to, what a load of rubbish.

    Also, under Band 3 NHS in plain english is "Bridge Work", so why does everyone say they won't do them. I think we can guess that answer can't we?

    ![/QUOTE]

    Average cost of running a cheap practice in a cheap area per room.. 140 pounds an hour

    Laboratory costs for a private four unit bridge start at 516 pounds and will go up to several thousand depending on materials , gold content of metals ,staining etc, laboratory costs for a four unit bridge on the nhs will be more than the dentist takes in by quite a large factor, in other words the dentist will pay for their time, their practice expenses and the additional lab bill, it costs a dentist to provide a bridge on the NHS.

    bridges are made of porcelain and precious or non precious metal, or pressed ceramic they take many hours of a lab technicians time.

    to prepare , x ray, numb up two teeth , prepare them in a parellel way for a bridge , take impressions , make a four unit temporary bridge, decomtaminate , write up notes and lab forms, set up and clean down a surgery takes an awful lot longer than 20 minutes.

    I have yet to meet the dentist who can fit,adjust a bridge, set up and clean down a surgery , write up notes in 2 minutes!

    Maryland bridges are not used for back teeth and certainly not as far back as a wisdom tooth except as temporaries for eg an implant, Even then they don't last as they can't take that sort of biting strain.

    The NHS is there to secure health. The rotten tooth has been taken out and a denture provided . A bridge does not secure health, perticularly that far back in the mouth even if you might prefer one. The list of NHS treatments does not mean you are entitled to them all , they are there to be used as appropriate to secure dental health. Indeed in the new pilot schemes very few crowns and bridges are done as most peoples oral health is not good enough to warrant them or they are not appropriate.

    Finally your 56 pounds has paid for a check up , provided by a dentist , possibly x rays and your filling. It pays for the dentists, nurses,receptionist,cleaners,decontamination nurses time, the costs of running the surgery and the materials. A 5ml bottle of glue to stick in that white filling costs 90 pounds alone.

    The set up, cleaning down ,paperwork, check up , getting materials out and ready, anaesthetic, getting materials out, filling , smoothing and adjusting cannot possibly be done in 2 minutes.

    I hope this clarifies things for some people reading this thread.
  • Toothsmith
    Toothsmith Posts: 10,074 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary
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    I think we're just feeding trolls here Brook!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
  • dontlikemondays
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    You making it sound like the Dentists are just about managing.
    I didn't get that impression from the 4 brand new 4x4 cars on the carpark. As they were still there on my second and third visits one can presume they are the Dentists cars.

    I just Googled "average Dentist Pay" and this is what can be seen first page Google snippetts.

    Most dentists are self-employed contractors in general practice, mixing NHS with private work. In this setting you can earn £50,000 to £110,000. Wholly private dentists can earn £140,000+. If you work as a dentist employed by the NHS, mainly in community dental services, you'll earn a salary of £38,861 to £83,118.

    So there you have it, you could earn a very nice £50k-110k just from NHS work, but why the hell would you when you can earn literally anything you want?

    I don't expect the two "tooth fairies" on here to understand. As I said, them agreeing would be like turkeys voting for xmas, but I want people to understand their Dentist isn't the friendly caring NHS employee with your best interest at heart (which is usually the case in our great NHS) Your Dentist has a different agenda and that my friends in need, is to take as much of your hard earned money as they can as quickly as they can.

    Toothsmith asked what I would do about it if I were in charge.
    Well, I'm no expert but what about a cap on NHS dentistry earnings. So, yes, you can work for the NHS as a considerate Dentist but you'll be paid the same a as a Nurse or a Firefighter or policeman, around £28,000.
    "Oh what, you want to drive Lamborghinis and travel first class. Ok, Go private then? Start your own business whatever. Bye"

    That way, we would get the best, people that cared about people in need, rather than their own back pockets!

    Nuff said me thinks!
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