New! Student Finance Calculator 2012

Options
1356712

Comments

  • MrsAverage
    Options
    Excellant tool MSE - thank you.
    Some interesting results
  • MrsAverage
    Options
    I was interested to see results if student from poorer background takes advantage of the lower fees and bigger maintenance loans offered by most Unis, and they repay exactly same as student on full fees and maintenance if on averge job. For poorer student to benefit they would need pay tuition fees of under £3000. Anything more and they are on par.

    Why have Government made everything so complicated and so difficult to work out?
  • rollomcfluff
    Options
    It's a great tool and it throws up a number of anomalies.

    For instance have you noticed that middle earners pay far more than high earners (or low earners). I assume high earners pay less over time because they pay their loans off at a faster rate. But doesn't it seem wrong that the highest earners pay less than moderate earners?

    Are you able to get me the answer to a few other issues:

    1. When two graduates marry and then divorce, does the graduate debt stay with the originator of the debt? I can anticipate real trouble with this if say the woman had given up work to raise kids while the man continued to pay off his loan as he continued to work. The woman would then be left with her student debt burden.

    2. What is the effect of cumulative interest in the early years after university when you are likely to be earning less - perhaps continuing academic study with a Masters or PhD programme - or during time away from work - for instance for bringing up children.

    3. If, say, one graduate partner in a marriage is not working and the other is, does only one debt get paid down - or is the household income taken into account?

    4. If a pair of graduates marry and have combined student loans of say £80,000 (two loans of £40,000) what effect will this have on their ability to get a mortgage? If they were on joint incomes of £50,000pa then they might expect to be able to borrow £200,000 under normal circumstances - but they would already have a working life commitment to repay £80,000; wouldn't lenders deduct that from their potential borrowing amount?

    I can see the possibility for the student loan system to have some terrible unintended consequences: eg penalising divorced women; reducing graduates' abilities to buy their own homes; discouraging continued academic pursuit or delaying starting families.

    Hope you can help.
  • Former_MSE_Dan
    Options
    Hi rollomcfluff,

    Here are some partial answers to your questions - for full explanations though read our dedicated guide: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes?purge

    1) Debt is tied to one person - so a divorcee who hadn't worked wouldn't have paid down debt (and it would have accrued interest at the rate of RPI inflation). Any unpaid balance after 30 years gets wiped.

    2) In general, years you don't pay for mean the loan accumulates interest behind the scenes, but the repayment system means your monthly repayments when you do restart repaying won't be any bigger (9% of everything above the lower earnings threshold). It will mean you take longer to pay off the whole amount though, or never manage to before it wipes.

    3) No, debt is separate from each other, it is taken from an individuals pay by PAYE system

    4) For a longer answer re: impact on mortgages, read answer 14 in this guide: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes
    Former MSE team member
  • Lokolo
    Lokolo Posts: 20,861 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    Options
    1. The student loan is on an individual basis. Nothing to do with couples marrying and divorcing.

    2. Not sure about this one, I can't remember if the 30 years starts from when you take the loan or when you graduate, but its one less year of payment.

    3. As with question 1, it's individual. The only time partners come into it is when you are being assessed for grants or extra loan.

    4. I doubt it will make any bit of difference, the repayments are small. For example, currently on £33k you'll pay back £135 a month, with the 2012 it'll be even less (£90 a month).

    edit - :@ Dan
  • Dustykitten
    Dustykitten Posts: 16,503 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Options
    Thanks for the tool very interesting to play around with. Interesting that the amount you borrow doesn't make any difference to how much you pay back unless you are one of those who clear the debt in less than 30 years. I wonder what percentage of those taking out the loans this will be?
    The birds of sadness may fly overhead but don't let them nest in your hair
  • eggy1
    eggy1 Posts: 7 Forumite
    Options
    Hi all - noticed in Martin's blurb that 'You have additional sources of income -If you have additional income of £2,000+ from savings interest, pensions or shares and dividends, then this will also be treated as part of your income for repayment purposes and you'll need to repay 9% of that too via Self Assessment (based on the current rules according to the Student Loan Company website, similar likely for 2012 starters). So ... even savings are taken into account - no point in our young generation is sourcing excellent % rates for their savings then! What about these students receiving any inheritance payments or future ££ funds? Im therefore assuming these wont escape the calculations but will come into the pay-back equation?? That will surely make the annual salary amount rise. So little ol' grandma's money to grandchild will start to reduce by 9% too. :eek:
  • Lokolo
    Lokolo Posts: 20,861 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    Options
    eggy1 wrote: »
    Hi all - noticed in Martin's blurb that 'You have additional sources of income -If you have additional income of £2,000+ from savings interest, pensions or shares and dividends, then this will also be treated as part of your income for repayment purposes and you'll need to repay 9% of that too via Self Assessment (based on the current rules according to the Student Loan Company website, similar likely for 2012 starters). So ... even savings are taken into account - no point in our young generation is sourcing excellent % rates for their savings then! What about these students receiving any inheritance payments or future ££ funds? Im therefore assuming these wont escape the calculations but will come into the pay-back equation?? That will surely make the annual salary amount rise. So little ol' grandma's money to grandchild will start to reduce by 9% too. :eek:

    I wish you wouldn't change the colours.

    If you quoted correctly, you would need a lot of money to get £2,000 of savings interest.

    At 3% (current interest rate in savings) you would need £67k in savings....! Not exactly the norm!
  • Rapier_2
    Options
    Whizzy as it is, both in simplicity and flexibility, I think there is a significant flaw. That is that salary growth for graduates is far from linear in percentage terms, rising much faster over the first 5-10 years of employment than. This podcast from the Office for National Statistics (okay, the forum won't let me post the link so go to youtube and search for 'Graduate earnings over the last decade') provides a pretty good description and shows that the average graduate salary roughly doubles between the ages of 22 and 32, before rising more slowly. The single percentage slider doesn't model this very well and will probably over-restimate repayment time (as people won't realise just how fast salary may rise).

    Given the situation isn't simple, it makes a simple solution hard to come by. I'd suggest perhaps separate sliders, one for the first 10 years after graduating and one for the next 20 years. I'd also suggest changing the increments on the salary growth slider to 0.5%. The changes in repayment time from changing this by a single percent can be several years; I seem 5-7 in most circumstances.

    Finally, on a more philosophical point, with long term debts such as this, the important thing is not the final cost, but the effect on quality of life. I wouldn't take out a mortgage to save money (total repayment about 2.5 times the original loan), but I have done because it enabled me to improve my quality of life at a reasonable monthly cost. Similarly, the 'cost' of a student loan is more about the reduction in monthly earnings (above a threshold) than the total amount paid back. In that way, it's much more like a tax than a loan.
  • sly_dog_jonah
    Options
    A number of courses run for longer than 4 years, so it would be good to add more year options to the tool. Perhaps options for part-timers too?

    It would also be useful to clarify if the sandwich year option is an 'extra' year or included in the years selected from the drop-down. For example I studied an MEng which included a sandwich year starting in 1998 (first year of tuition fees), so total length 5 years. Back then, sandwich years cost half fees and IIRC half the normal loan was available, not sure if that is still the case.

    Regarding wage rises for graduates, it varies significantly by industry and degree. In my case I started on a below average engineering wage 8 years ago (around £2-3k below the average then) and I've worked in the Telecoms Consultancy industry since graduation. I've averaged a 13.4% wage rise per year whereas RPIX (the index used for loan interest rate) has averaged 3.2% per annum over that period. However the rises have been quite 'lumpy' with the biggest annual rises corresponding to promotions and changing employer once (the biggie):

    2.70%
    21.05%
    14.35%
    10.74%
    54.51%
    0.00%
    10.00%
    2.11%

    Current graduates with significant wage rises usually pay off their loans within the first 10 years of graduation, but Rapier raises the valid point that with longer pay-off periods the deceleration of wage growth over time will affect the assumptions used in the calculator. However to avoid over-complexity in the tool UI I'd recommend keeping things simple.
    Cider Country Solar PV generator: 3.7kWp Enfinity system on unshaded SE (-36deg azimuth) & 45deg roof
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 248K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards