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Hit with 8 tickets dating back to 2014

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Hi Guys,

I am back again. Cannot believe I am back here so soon after getting my wife's tickets set aside. An update on her- she is 38 weeks pregnant and ready to pop. I have passed the first part of my exam with the next part in Feb.

Anyways... we got a call from our old landlord to say that a bunch of paperwork had landed in the post for us. Much to my shock I had a county court claim for for 1345!!!!
Much the same as last time. 7 parking tickets in a residential block for not displaying a permit- all from 2014. (I cannot help but think this has come about as a result of defending my wife) all my tickets predate hers despite hers coming to court already. There was an 8th ticket for parking at Burnley Hospital in July 2014( I was a member of staff and there was no free staff spaces so I put it in the pay and display space to get to my clinic). At that point in time I had been advised to ignore the PCNs as they were not available.


So I have acknowledged the service (thankfully the last day was tomorrow) and I have 14 days to file a defence. I have a good defence as set out previously for my wife's case. I will pretty much stick to this verbatim as I have photos of wrong signage/poor signage high up etc.

The one that concerns me is the hospital. Parking at that hospital is rubbish for staff if you come in the afternoon. I am aware of the recent court cases where the hospital employees lost the big case. So I am concerned about what kind of defence I mount for this.

Parking companies are nothing but vindictive. I have no doubt this is all as a result of me helping my wife.

Thoughts much appreciated regarding the hospital staff defence.

cheers

WDM
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Comments

  • wdm1985
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    Oh also as the cases are historical and predate beavis I have no paperwork pertaining to anything
  • Congrats to your o/h... not long and, of course, with the perennial clinical exams.

    Same Particulars for each site? Different PPC for hospital and residential sites?
  • wdm1985
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    Hi John nice to converse again- I will owe you a good scotch at this rate.
    Same PPC as wifes case, same firm representing.

    One ticket is ' parking in a pay and display space without displaying a valid ticket'. This was when I was unable to find a staff parking space as it was full

    The other 7 are ' parking in a designated resident permit holder parking space without clearly displaying a valid permit' . All at the same address as the wife!
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,523 Forumite
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    One ticket is ' parking in a pay and display space without displaying a valid ticket'. This was when I was unable to find a staff parking space as it was full
    Do you know whether they have evidence, actually placing the car in that P&D area, with a readable sign in the same photo, as opposed to just vague pics of a car in a bay somewhere?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • wdm1985
    wdm1985 Posts: 57 Forumite
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    Hi coupon!
    I have no idea to be honest- had until tomorrow to acknowledge the service... so I have done so. The only think I have seen is particulars of claim. As the last one was a set aside I didn't have any evidence and it seems to be the case I don't with this either. At which point am I entitled to actually see what they have? I still plan to defend it anyways.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,523 Forumite
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    You will probably not see evidence until their WS, unless the Judge orders them to provide fuller POC and evidence sooner.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • [Deleted User]
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    Would be helpful to see full PoC.

    If the terms of parking for each site are entirely different, you will want to clearly address the circumstances of each element. Maybe consider (in a manner of speaking) bolting two defences together - dealing with each set of facts, defence specific to those and perhaps more preliminary points - the issues generic to both.

    Messy. Think hard on your best angle of attack.

    Finally, by the by, were you to advance any drop hands (should it later come to that) you'll find examples on the forum. The aim as ever is to explain why their case is doomed to failure and set out the value in going your separate ways. Every case is different. Some will have attractions to the Claimant, some won't.
  • wdm1985
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    Hi Guys,

    Sorry it has taken me a bit of time to get back with my draft defence. It is due on Friday. So ideally need to post tomorrow. my phone has crashed so I have lost my MECOL number which means i cant submit online.

    Here is my defence. It is a combination what I submitted for my wife and a defence for another case here.
    Out of interest- in my wifes set aside hearing the judge stated that there was no proof of loss to the parking company for the residential parking. Can I put that in my defence? or as the case has not been decided can I not?

    I haven't really addressed the hospital ticket much.. I had a permit but the carpark was full. I haven't been able to go there as it is several hours away. I have gone with POFA and poor signage argument. I may have to address it further in my witness statement in the future if I get the chance to go. Baby due imminently so I cant travel and look at signs etc.

    here is the draft:

    1. I assert that I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all, for the following reasons:

    i. The Claimant has no standing to bring a case
    ii. The Claimant has no capacity to form a contract with the motorist
    iii. The signage across the sites did not offer a genuine contract with the motorist
    iiii. Even if a contract could be formed, it would be void as in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations
    v. The Claimant has no Cause of Action
    vi. Even if a debt existed, it would be due to the land-owner, not the Claimant
    vii. The Claimant has misrepresented its day-to-day business costs as a loss
    viii. The defendant had a valid parking permit for xxx as he was a tenant at the property at the time of the tickets issued at lakeside rise. The defendant also had a parking permit for xxxx General hospital.

    2. The Claimant manages the car parks. The Claimant is not therefore the Land-owner at either site. Neither has it claimed to be an Agent. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that it is merely a contractor. The Claimant has not therefore explained what authority it has to bring the claim. The proper claimant is the landowner.

    3. A contract is absent with the lawful occupier of the land being produced by the claimant, or a chain of contracts showing authorisation stemming from the lawful occupier of the land, the Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant does not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no locus standi to bring this case.
    • Their claim is presumably based on damages for alleged breach of contract. It is a fundamental principle of English Law that a party who suffers damages through breach of contract can only seek through court action to be put back in the same position as they would have been if the breach had not occurred. In order to do so, they must demonstrate their actual, or genuine, pre-estimate of loss.
    • The defendant submits that no loss has been suffered by the Claimant as a result of any alleged breaches of contract on the part of any motorist of the vehicle of which he is the Registered Keeper. He further submits that any loss to the landholder at Burnley Hospital (which would be the only party able to claim such losses) would be at most a few pounds.

    4. The Defendant is aware that the Claimant relies on ParkingEye v Beavis. The Defendant submits that the present case can be distinguished for three reasons:
    • In Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E, it was established that ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 does not apply to residential parking. The Supreme Court found that £85 was not a genuine pre-estimate of loss in Beavis as there was no direct loss to the parking company. Seven of the eight alleged parking charges in this case" relate to residential parking.
    • It was established that ParkingEye paid a premium of £1000 per week to operate at the site. This was ruled to give them standing as Principal. In the present case they are acting as a contractor to the land-owner.
    • In the Beavis case there was also a clear chain of command between the land-owner and ParkingEye established by the production of original copies of the contracts.

    If the Claimant wishes to rely on Beavis, the Defendant is put to proof that such a contract exists and of its content.
    Also the Claimant has claimed that “ParkingEye v Beavis” confirms that any amount will be recoverable provided it is proportionate to a “legitimate interest” which is not true. The Beavis case found that the sum of £85 in that case alone, with the particular signage and adequate notice in that case, was not a penalty.

    5. As this case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes and UKPC have not shown any valid 'legitimate interest' allowing them the unusual right to pursue anything more than a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    6. If the driver happened to see the signage (if any were present) on each occasion, signs are located at a distance in pale, unlit and placed so high creating an illegible condition to read the terms and conditions required to enter a contract. The signs do not comply with BPA Code of Practice.

    7. It is further noted that the signage at xxxx has several different forms making it impossible to know which are supposed to be in use. In several areas it is evident that the rules and regulations governing the carpark have been altered (Old glue marks on the walls)
    8.The dates of the PCNs range from early 2014 to early 2015, and in that time it is averred that the signs at both sites will have changed, been replaced or updated (to reflect changes in the BPA Code of Practice) and indeed some may have been removed or damaged. There is no signage that is supplied by UKPC that existed throughout the time-span of this claim and it is argued that this operator did not comply with the 'signage' and 'entrance signs' sections of the BPA Code of Practice as it changed between 2015 to date.

    8. Such is the density and complexity of the text on the signs that the most onerous term – the parking charge – is buried amongst a mass of small print and does not comply with Denning MR’s “Red Hand Rule”.

    9. The doctrine of contra proferentem applies and the interpretation that most favours a consumer must prevail; that being that the driver(s) did not see or accept the sum the claimant says they did.

    10. It is believed that this Claimant has not adhered to the BPA Code of Practice and is put to strict proof of full compliance. This Claimant has been exposed in the national press - and was recently investigated by the BPA - for falsifying photo evidence, which was admitted by the Claimant. It is submitted that this is not a parking company which complies with the strict rules of their Trade Body, which were held as a vital regulatory feature in ParkingEye v Beavis. The Claimant is put to proof that the photographic evidence it has is accurate and true and that any and all previous correspondence has been sent to the Defendant as claimed.

    11. Due to the length of time that has passed, the Defendant has little to no recollection of the days in question, which were unremarkable. It would not be reasonable to expect a registered keeper to be able to recall the potential driver(s) of the car some years later. In any case, there is no such obligation in law and this was confirmed in the POPLA Annual Report 2015 by parking expert barrister and Lead Adjudicator, Henry Greenslade, who also clarified the fact that registered keeper can only be held liable under the POFA Schedule 4 and not by presumption or any other legal argument.

    12. Due to the Claimant’s history of lack of compliance with regulations, the Claimant must prove that it has fully complied with the strict requirements sent out in POFA 2012 Schedule 4. As the Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle, these regulations must be complied with in order to hold the keeper liable.

    13. The POFA restricts liability to the sum of the parking charge itself and the BPA Code of Practice has a ceiling of £100. It is not believed that the Claimant has incurred additional costs - be it legal or debt collector costs - and they are put to strict proof that they have actually incurred and can lawfully add an extra £60 to each PCN and that those sums formed part of the contract in the first instance.

    14. The Particulars of Claim submitted by the Claimant is not compliant with the Practice Directions. The Claimant has not attached the contract(s) it wishes to rely on that it alleges were in place at the time. The Claimant has not clarified whether it is seeking keeper liability and has not attached any confirmation that is has gone through the necessary steps to do so. The Claimant has not clarified if there are any amounts claimed over and above the initial charge and on what basis they are being claimed.

    15. The POFA 2012 Schedule 4 states that before seeking keeper liability, the Claimant must demonstrate that there was a “relevant obligation” either by way of breach of contract, trespass or other tort. The Claimant is put to strict proof that the “relevant obligation” existed and that the correct procedure was followed to transfer liability to the registered keeper.

    16. The POFA 2012 Schedule 4 states that before seeking keeper liability, the Claimant must demonstrate that there was a “relevant contract”. The Claimant is put to strict proof that a “relevant contract” existed to pay £100 and that there was (as defined in 2(3) of the statute) 'adequate notice' of that sum and legible terms.

    17. The claimant alleges that on seven occasions no valid permit was on display. As the registered keeper the defendant can produce the permit which does not stipulate which bay number the car had to be parked in. This permit was supplied by the landlord when he moved into the property. In Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.

    18. Save as expressly mentioned above, the Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety, voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons.
  • wdm1985
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    can I email it to this address? ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
  • claxtome
    claxtome Posts: 628 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
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    can I email it to this address? ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
    Yes but you need to ensure you send it as a signed pdf. (Assuming you have access to a scanner)
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