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From your plan/deeds: It won't mention the wall if there's nothing to pay for the wall. Those deeds are just saying the path/steps have to always be available for people to use them.... so, on first looks... it looks like the bit of wall in front of your house is yours to sort out... ditto the other owners as/when they fancy getting round to it.
Of course, you'd get a better price if it were all done at the same time, but if some can't/won't, then it looks like that might be that.
Your bit of wall, your bill... and while you're at it, don't block the path your rubble, there's a good chap.0 -
I agree with others that £30K for the entire wall seems a lot. If it were built with expensive stone, and were high as well as long, maybe. But that....?emma_spaghetti wrote: ». looks like we each own our section of wall rather than everyone having liability for the entire wall as previously thought:
CORRECT
https://ibb.co/dszuhJ
The exact wording on our land registry says:
"(01.03.1963) The Freehold land shown edged with ref RED?on the plan of the above Title filed at the Registry and being (our address).
The land has the benefit of a right of way over the passageway tinted brown on the filed plan subject to the payment of a proportionate part of the expense of keeping the same in repair and properly cleansed and a right of way over the pavement or terrace and the steps leading thereto tinted yellow on the filed plan subject to the payment of a fair proportionate part of the expense of keeping the said payment or terrace and steps in repair and properly cleansed."
Quite a wordy sentence which doesn't shed much light; it mentions the steps and passageway but not actually the wall!
Sheds perfect light.
That section of the wall that forms the boundary to your property (edged in [red?) of the Plan, is yours.
The passagway is not yours, but you have certain obligations ( to clean/maintain it).
Irrespective, it is only your section that needs concern you. And by building a piller of some kind at each end of your section, you can protect it from being damaged if the neighbouring section were to collapse.
Worry about your wall, not the other 8 people's.0 -
I understood this rather differently - the "passageway" runs along the rear of the houses (brown on the plan) and the "pavement or terrace" runs along the front. The passageway is irrelevant to the OP's question, as this is about the "pavement or terrace" at the front.Sheds perfect light.
That section of the wall that forms the boundary to your property (edged in [red?) of the Plan, is yours.
The passagway is not yours, but you have certain obligations ( to clean/maintain it).
I agree with others that £30K for the entire wall seems a lot. If it were built with expensive stone, and were high as well as long, maybe. But that....?
Irrespective, it is only your section that needs concern you. And by building a piller of some kind at each end of your section, you can protect it from being damaged if the neighbouring section were to collapse.
Worry about your wall, not the other 8 people's.
Each house owns its own section of each of the "pavement or terrace" but has a right of way over the sections owned by other properties. The wall in question is is between the normal public pavement and the privately-owned "pavement or terrace" over which each property has a right of way. The "pavement or terrace" is higher than the pavement - hence the need for the steps!
The wall is not a simple boundary wall but also the retaining wall that keeps the "pavement or terrace" in place. This is relevant for understanding why the wall is expensive to rebuild/replace and why the failure of a section is likely to have a serious impact on the adjacent sections and significant liability implications.0 -
Ah! I thought the wall was at the back (brown on the Plan). Hadn't checked the photos. Yes as a retaining wall it would be more costly.
Like pinklady below, I think there now seem 3 possible interpretations:
1) the wall, which is excluded from the Deeds description ("the said payment or terrace and steps ") belongs to and is therefore the responsibility of the council.
2) Though it could also be argued that collapse of the wall would damage the terrace which IS the property owners' responsibility.
3) the wall may fall within the property boundary (red on the Plan) so be the property owner's responsibility.
One for a specialist lawyer I think.0 -
Hmm. I wonder whether this boundary wall is indeed actually owned by the house owners at all. The red line on the plan seems to run over the yellow area, but inside the boundary.
While the scale of the plan may be the issue there, if the deeds say nothing about the wall, nor who maintains the boundaries, I wonder if it is the neighbouring landowner on the other side?
Has it been adopted by the Council?
Is that why they are taking an interest?
I must caveat by saying I am not a lawyer.....but I think you need to consult one. What did your conveyancer tell you about the maintenance of the boundaries when you purchased?
Why do you think you own this wall?
Why do you think you are responsible for maintaining it?
Do you have legal protection cover with your house insurance? Ask them if they can help.
Are you in Scotland? Here, we have something called "Statutory Notices", whereby if the owners cannot agree to a common repair, the council, can for a fee, step in , carry out the works and bill each owner for their share.
Have to establish ownership and responsibility first though.
Let us know how you get on - and best of luck.0 -
I understood this rather differently - the "passageway" runs along the rear of the houses (brown on the plan) and the "pavement or terrace" runs along the front. The passageway is irrelevant to the OP's question, as this is about the "pavement or terrace" at the front.
Each house owns its own section of each of the "pavement or terrace" but has a right of way over the sections owned by other properties. The wall in question is is between the normal public pavement and the privately-owned "pavement or terrace" over which each property has a right of way. The "pavement or terrace" is higher than the pavement - hence the need for the steps!
The wall is not a simple boundary wall but also the retaining wall that keeps the "pavement or terrace" in place. This is relevant for understanding why the wall is expensive to rebuild/replace and why the failure of a section is likely to have a serious impact on the adjacent sections and significant liability implications.
Thank you casper_g, you've hit the nail on the head
the row of houses also sit up against the footpath hence the price tag. 0 -
I've just gone back and re-read that legal wording and...yep..I'm interpreting it as the 9 houses just own the steps and passageway. The wall itself doesn't seem to be mentioned.
I'm wondering if OP thinks the wall is in the ownership of those 9 houses because of something like someone verbally describing it as "our wall" and/or someone (wrongly) thinking it's owned by the houses.
I agree with the others - that I'd start now by finding if the wall really IS in the ownership of those 9 houses or no. If it isn't - then it does look like it's the Council's responsibility to repair it and the Council that would be liable if it falls onto anyone's head.
I would have interpreted your title plan as "I own my bit of the passageway (with everyone else having ROW over it) - as the red line is inside the line that constitutes the wall. I don't own the wall".0 -
Are all the houses owner occupied? just wondering if the lack of response is because any tenants aren't interested and the landlords are'nt aware of your letters?All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.
Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.0 -
But OP hasnt found out yet whether this wall really is owned/therefore the responsibility of the 9 houses.
That's the first step imo.
To be honest, I'm a little surprised that's not already been checked - as one of the first things I did re a nearby wall was to establish "not on my title plan/not mentioned in my deeds as my responsibility = nowt to do with me #shrugs", though I've every suspicion it will come down at some point...but it's owned by someone else....0 -
Surely the first place to start would be with the solicitor/conveyancers'r'us firm who dealt with the OP's house purchase. The first question I would ask is why this was not picked up and the wall's ownership determined before exchange.
While I realise it is easy to be clever with hindsight, it seems moot to worry about repair/rebuild costs without first finding out who is liable for them.0
This discussion has been closed.
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