Will this trigger a change?

Becles · 20 November 2018 at 10:19PM

I currently work and claim some child tax credit. I'm one of the ones who would be significantly worse off under universal credit if I get moved across.

If I put in a short term claim (probably 3-4 weeks but might up to 8-10 weeks) for ESA, would that be classed as "triggering a change" and I'd be moved across to UC?

Alice_Holt · 20 November 2018 at 10:44PM

Depends on whether:
a) you are in a UC full service area: and
b) if you intend to claim income-based ESA or contribution-based ESA.

Income-based ESA falls under UC, if you are in a UC full service area. So, in a full service area, you are not able to claim IB ESA, you can only claim UC.

Contribution-based ESA or 'new style ESA' is based on NI contributions (and not means tested). It is a different benefit to UC. However, many people are being incorrectly advised by DWP staff that they need to claim UC first (or cannot claim CB- ESA).
This "advice" is incorrect, but claiming new style ESA is very difficult, once on UC your tax credits will stop and you are then unable to exit UC.
See this thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5925615

Be careful.
For the sake of 3 / 4 weeks ESA, it may not be worth taking the risk of ending up on UC.

Becles · 20 November 2018 at 11:32PM

Thanks.

Yes I've paid my NI so it would be contribution based ESA.

I didn't want to claim ESA for 3-4 weeks to cover the operation if I'm going to lose out long term by being forced to move onto UC with much lower payments for the next 7-9 years.

Robbie64 · 20 November 2018 at 11:45PM

Becles wrote: »

Thanks.

Yes I've paid my NI so it would be contribution based ESA.

I didn't want to claim ESA for 3-4 weeks to cover the operation if I'm going to lose out long term by being forced to move onto UC with much lower payments for the next 7-9 years.

As Alice said a number of people are being incorrectly advised that they have to claim UC and that contribution based ESA has been abolished.

If you are going to be claiming ESA for a maximum of 4 weeks then you would receive a maximum of £292.40. While it's not right that people should be dissuaded from claiming their entitlement you need to work out if in the long run you would lose more than you gain for those 4 weeks if the DWP make an error as they have done with so many people over this new style conts based ESA.

Are you self-employed? I'm just wondering why, assuming you're working, SSP is not an option?

Becles · 20 November 2018 at 11:50PM

Robbie64 wrote: »

As Alice said a number of people are being incorrectly advised that they have to claim UC and that contribution based ESA has been abolished.

If you are going to be claiming ESA for a maximum of 4 weeks then you would receive a maximum of £292.40. While it's not right that people should be dissuaded from claiming their entitlement you need to work out if in the long run you would lose more than you gain for those 4 weeks if the DWP make an error as they have done with so many people over this new style conts based ESA.

Are you self-employed? I'm just wondering why, assuming you're working, SSP is not an option?

Yes self employed.

It's them making an error and leaving me worse off long term that worries me most.

Robbie64 · 21 November 2018 at 12:03AM

It's your choice but if it were me and I knew it was going to be a short term claim then unless I really needed the money I just wouldn't bother. I'm not 100% sure about this next bit so someone can hopefully correct me if I'm wrong but you can't get ESA for a certain period anyway at the start of the claim. It used to be 3 days but it may now be 7 days. This is called a "waiting period" or "waiting days" and it is intended to stop very short term claims from being made.

Waiting days were abolished for UC but I believe they still exist for ESA including the contributory version. As I said though, if I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.

poppy12345 · 21 November 2018 at 12:14AM

Robbie64 wrote: »

It's your choice but if it were me and I knew it was going to be a short term claim then unless I really needed the money I just wouldn't bother. I'm not 100% sure about this next bit so someone can hopefully correct me if I'm wrong but you can't get ESA for a certain period anyway at the start of the claim. It used to be 3 days but it may now be 7 days. This is called a "waiting period" or "waiting days" and it is intended to stop very short term claims from being made.

Waiting days were abolished for UC but I believe they still exist for ESA including the contributory version. As I said though, if I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.

There's a 7 day waiting period for ESA, which means you won't be paid for the first 7 days of your claim.

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/employment-and-support-allowance-phase

Becles · 21 November 2018 at 12:20AM

Thanks for the help. I think it might be best not to bother claiming!

It'll be tough being unpaid but I think I can manage for 3-4 weeks. Fingers crossed it all goes to plan and they can do it keyhole so I'm back to work quicker.

xylophone · 21 November 2018 at 1:37PM

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3696-new-style-esa-claims-sabotaged-by-dwp

After getting further advice the call handler then explained that claims for new style ESA are completely separate from UC, even though claimants must use the UC line to make their claim.

The call handler then said he could either email or post out a form for making the claim and said that he would raise the problem as a training issue as his colleagues probably didn’t know any more than he did.

Anyone trying to make a claim for new style ESA is advised to be very persistent in insisting that they are claiming this benefit rather than UC, no matter how hard call handlers try to persuade you otherwise.

Why are people not raising this in writing with their MP?

Will this trigger a change?

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