Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Zebedeee · 11 June 2008 at 9:12PM

Hi there tip and welcome to the thread. You have posted in the right place.

Good news about your mum being rebanded! As the change is effective from 1st April 1993 this means that she should get a refund of her overpayments since then. Sometimes the VOA take a while to get round to telling the council about it, and then the cogs grind slowly in the Council Tax department. If I were you I would give them a ring and ask what is happening with your mums refund - they are never in as much of a hurry as you are!

Hope that helps!

Zebedeee

tip · 11 June 2008 at 9:25PM

This might be a dumb question but!
If your house has been rebanded to a lower band, can you automatically expect to be refunded the overpayment? I think, from everything I've read, the answer is yes but someone at the Council Tax office has made me doubt it.

I ask because, out of the blue, my mother received a letter from her local Valuation Office saying that her house was to be rebanded from C to B and that 'this change is effective from 1st April 1993.'
I read that to mean she could expect repayment of the difference for all of those years.
But a later letter from the Council to advise her of the change in rate didn't mention repayment. I called them for her and the tax office worker sounded surprised that she was expecting it. She asked if the Valuation Officer had said as much. I read her the letter, she asked for the question to be put in writing plus a copy of the Valuation Office letter. We did all of that, hand delivered on 22 May, and have heard nothing.
I'm doing this to help my mother, by the way, she hates officialdom, I'm not trying to run off with her cash!
I plan to phone tomorrow but would prefer to know if my mother has a right to the repayment before I make a fool of myself!
I would appreciate your guidance.

themilnes · 11 June 2008 at 9:45PM

Hi folks - I moved house last August and decided to challenge it's council tax banding, (currently G). I've had a letter through saying that it has to go to tribunal and, after speaking to the valuation officer have received details of the evidence that they'll be using at the tribunal. I would really appreciate others' thoughts on this...

The main problem that I, (and the VO I guess), have is that we're in a small village with very few house sales. We are the only 4 bedroomed house in our little close - the others are 5 beds - and in the 2 roads next to us they are all identical houses to those in our close, mostly 5 beds but a couple of 4 beds (identical to our house). One of the 4 bedroomed houses was reduced to a band F in 2001, but the VO now says that she thinks that may be incorrect and will investigate.

The evidence that she's supplied is as follows:
5 bed house on our street. 217m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £238,700. Band G
4 bed house elsewhere in village. 166m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £128,500. Band F
5 bed house elsewhere in village. 188m2. Sale date 27/11/1991 @ £185,000. Band G
Identical house to ours in next street. 183m2. Reduced to band F in 2001
She then quotes a couple of other 4 bed 2 bath houses in the village (similar floor area to ours) that are banded G (no sales data provided for these).

Based upon the house price calculator, (which I know we can't quote as hard evidence), our house would have been comfortably within the F banding in 1991, based upon the sale last year. It would appear that she's mainly working off the floor area of the houses in pricing up ours. Does anyone know how they would have got/worked out the area of the houses and SHOULD the council tax valuation be based upon this rather than number of bedrooms and bathrooms?

I'd really appreciate any advice as I don't want to waste the time of both myself and the council if we have no chance of success.

Thanks!

beingjdc · 11 June 2008 at 11:32PM

It's a mixture of different things - surface area is a big one, though they really seem to have it in for extra bathrooms (which is weird as surely they can't reband an existing property if you install one without extending?)

They will know the size and so on from their records, they tend to get hold of copies of the plans and things like that, or go round and measure in a few cases.

*Sigh*, where's your village? A 4-bed house in a village in the same band as my 2-bed flat on a shopping street above a bookies. Funny old world isn't it! Maybe that suggest my appeal has some merit, though I appreciate London's pricier than elsewhere. Still, South London, not Kensington.

The identical house that was reduced looks like your best line of argument.

tip · 11 June 2008 at 11:38PM

Thanks Zebedeee, that's great news.
I'll enjoy making the phone call for her now!
Appreciate your help.

themilnes · 12 June 2008 at 10:15PM

Thanks beingjdc. We're in Bedfordshire so houses around here tend to be a little cheaper - certainly than London and Hertfordshire next door!

I've tried local libraries but they don't have copies of the local papers back as far as 1991 so I don't know where on earth I can get any sales data other than that the Valuation Officer has provided. Is there any chance I can argue our case simply based upon the fact that the identical house in the next street is an F band or do I have to have more evidence than that? If so, if anyone has any bright ideas where I might be able to get other sales evidence...or indeed any different types of evidence that would be useful then I'd be really grateful.

vivatifosi · 13 June 2008 at 11:22AM

Hi themilnes,

If you have no luck with the local library, you could call the British Library and ask them what they have. If you are very lucky they may even arrange despatch to a local centre to you where you can view. Don't however turn up there and think they will be at St Pancras - you may need for them to ship things down from their centre in York - so that could be a wasted journey.

Also, if you have had no luck with local libraries, try the county library. Quite often they will keep a larger stock of papers on microfilm.

guppy · 14 June 2008 at 9:59PM

themilnes wrote: »

The evidence that she's supplied is as follows:
5 bed house on our street. 217m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £238,700. Band G
4 bed house elsewhere in village. 166m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £128,500. Band F
5 bed house elsewhere in village. 188m2. Sale date 27/11/1991 @ £185,000. Band G
Identical house to ours in next street. 183m2. Reduced to band F in 2001
She then quotes a couple of other 4 bed 2 bath houses in the village (similar floor area to ours) that are banded G (no sales data provided for these).

Hello,

Do you know how big your house is compared to the above, in terms of floor area? The above areas relate to the external area of the house, for both floors, including the walls.

The above evidence looks a bit of a mixed bag, are there any differences in the houses apart from their size, maybe their age or character? An ugly 1960s house will usually have sold for a lot less than one built a couple of years before the valuation date. Also, the location might be relevant, are they on a main road or a posh infill estate?

Even if you can't get any other evidence, you might be able to work with the above if you can persuage the Tribunal that your house would be cheaper than the sales above, or at least similar to the £128k sale.

Might be worth taking a walk to have sly look at those other houses...

Good luck!

MarkH78 · 17 June 2008 at 1:08AM

exvoperson wrote: »

Mark

The best thing to do is phone the VOA and ask for details of their customer service manager then contact them with your details. That generally gets things moving. The VOA do have a number of deadline they should be working to like replying to your email within 20 working days.
It pays to make a noise and complain, i know as I used to work there for 20 odd years!!
Regards
ExVOperson

Hi
Thanks for your reply
I wonder if you or someone else can give me some further info, sorry if its already posted but as u can see how long its took me so far you can see i dont get round to following this up,
Ive rang the VOA office and they told me that they have refused my request to change the banding and that I should have received a letter. I told her I did not receive a letter and that I have had no reply from 2 emails either. She started apologising but told me that it had been refused due to the extention I have on my house.
She has sent a copy of the letter which I received this morning and it basically says that the banding is correct despite other properties in the area being lower (they are all lower) and she goes on to say ""I will consider whether the bandings of any other properties in our area need to be increased":o

It ends by saying "I regret that there is no right of appeal against my decision but I hope you appreciate that I have addressed the points raised and considered the effect they have in the context of your council tax banding"
I can scan and upload the full letter if anyone can help any further

vivatifosi · 17 June 2008 at 1:44PM

Hi Mark,

Was the extension built before you moved in, or did you build it yourself before Council Tax was introduced? If so, then you may not really have a case by the sound of things. If however you have built the extension since you moved in, and this was also after CT was introduced, then it should not be taken into consideration until in time you come to move and you should remind the VOA of this.

I would write to the VOA under Freedom of Information Act and ask them how your decision was arrived at. In terms of other properties being increased, there is nothing to stop those properties going straight to tribunal and asking for the banding to be put down again. It is only public lethargy and lack of knowledge of the system that gives the VOA access to what is perceived as such a big stick - the ability to put bandings up. Certainly they can. But what neighbours should do in such circumstances is to unite and fight back and sadly when I read through tribunals this doesn't happen often enough.

While there is no right of appeal, they still have to be able to prove that they are right (ie maintaining an accurate list), hence the FOI request suggestion.

Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

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