Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

guppy

Hi Mark,

The letter you received is just a "cut and paste" job, its unlikely that the rest of the street will be increased. There's a strong presumption against increasing large numbers of bandings:

http://www.voa.gov.uk/instructions/chapters/council_tax/council_tax_man_s2/d-ct-man-s2-pt3.htm#P193_11745

How big is the extension to your house? If its quite large or it adds a bedroom, then it may well add enough value to put you in a higher band than smaller properties. On the other hand, if its just a small kitchen extension with a felt roof then it might not add much value at all and it will often be ridiculous for the VO to claim otherwise.

The part of the letter stating you have no right of appeal may be correct if you have lived in the property for over 6 months, at least in so far as you won't have the right to appeal to the independent Valuation Tribunal.

However if you feel strongly that the property is incorrectly valued you can always write and complain and ask for it to be reconsidered. If you decide to do this, use the info on this thread to build up some hard evidence (e.g. 1990s sales prices or at least detailed info of any anomalies between bandings in the street). I'd urge you to "keep your powder dry" until you have a strong case, if you don't get your point across second time around it may be even harder the third time.

As vivatifosi suggests, the FOI Act is very powerful tool, or you could phone up the person that dealt with the case and ask them to explain the sales evidence they have used. They won't be able to give you excat addresses due to confidentiality, but they should be able to tell you the streets used, size of the other houses compared to yours (in metres squared), and the approximate sale prices and dates.

If the 1991 sales used by the VOA are borderline then this only strengthens your case. You can then question how much value you're extension actually adds.

Good luck

MarkH78

Thanks very much for your replies. I think I may just draw a line under this. I obviously need to spend alot of time researching etc and what with working full time and 2 kids its difficult to get time to pursue it. I thought I had a good case with being the only one in the street on a higher band and thought it may be straight forward.
Thanks again for your replies

vivatifosi

Thanks for the link guppy,

I've been looking for that page for ages and couldn't remember where I'd seen it!

vivatifosi

Hi Mark,

You've got to do what's right for you, of course. However the differences between bands can be big - I think Band E is 21% higher than Band D for example. That can represent a substantial overpayment going forward, and the potential for a substantial cheque in your favour looking backwards. When my neighbours received their overpayment cheques they received about £3,000. Well worth the additional work for them, paid for their holidays!

Unfortunately although the success pages are full of people who have been able to phone up the VOA, have a five minute conversation and get a big fat cheque, for most of us the reality is very different and there is a hard slog to get a house rebanded.

guppy

MarkH78 wrote: »

Thanks very much for your replies. I think I may just draw a line under this. I obviously need to spend alot of time researching etc and what with working full time and 2 kids its difficult to get time to pursue it. I thought I had a good case with being the only one in the street on a higher band and thought it may be straight forward.
Thanks again for your replies

Even if you don't have time to do any research, if the band doesn't make sense to you, you have nothing to lose from asking again for a proper explanation.

As vivatifosi says, the potential rewards could make it worthwhile. But you're better placed to judge values in your street than us

littlepockets

themilnes wrote: »

The evidence that she's supplied is as follows:
5 bed house on our street. 217m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £238,700. Band G
4 bed house elsewhere in village. 166m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £128,500. Band F
5 bed house elsewhere in village. 188m2. Sale date 27/11/1991 @ £185,000. Band G
Identical house to ours in next street. 183m2. Reduced to band F in 2001
She then quotes a couple of other 4 bed 2 bath houses in the village (similar floor area to ours) that are banded G (no sales data provided for these).
and bathrooms? ]

I'm going through a Tribunal hearing at the moment which was adjourned because I dispute the area measurement. If you look at past hearing listed - the sale price per m2 is very critical.
It is calculated by measuring the external areas "wall to wall" and then double it if there is a first floor. Garages are excluded.
The VOA have included a front and rear canopy which I don't think is correct. I have a surveyors report which calculate the external area at 15sqm less than the VOA.
So bottom line is to make sure you are happy with the measurements

exvoperson

littlepockets wrote: »

themilnes wrote: »

The evidence that she's supplied is as follows:
5 bed house on our street. 217m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £238,700. Band G
4 bed house elsewhere in village. 166m2. Sale date 04/07/1991 @ £128,500. Band F
5 bed house elsewhere in village. 188m2. Sale date 27/11/1991 @ £185,000. Band G
Identical house to ours in next street. 183m2. Reduced to band F in 2001
She then quotes a couple of other 4 bed 2 bath houses in the village (similar floor area to ours) that are banded G (no sales data provided for these).
and bathrooms? ]

I'm going through a Tribunal hearing at the moment which was adjourned because I dispute the area measurement. If you look at past hearing listed - the sale price per m2 is very critical.
It is calculated by measuring the external areas "wall to wall" and then double it if there is a first floor. Garages are excluded.
The VOA have included a front and rear canopy which I don't think is correct. I have a surveyors report which calculate the external area at 15sqm less than the VOA.
So bottom line is to make sure you are happy with the measurements

The measurement the VOA use is called Gross External Area and this is defined as:-

'GEA will Include

1. Perimeter wall thickness' and external projections
2. Areas occupied by internal walls (whether structural or not) and partitions
3. Columns, piers, chimney breasts, stairwells, lift/wells etc
4. Lift rooms, plant rooms, tank rooms, fuel stores, whether or not above roof level
5. Open-sided covered areas (should be stated separately

GEA will Exclude

6. Open balconies
7. Open fire escapes
8. Open sided covered ways
9. Open vehicle parking areas, terraces and the like
10. Minor canopies
11. Any area with a headroom of less than 1·5m (except under stairways)
12. Any area under the control of service or other external authorities'

The definition relates to commercial property as well hence some of the terms but you will see that minor canopies are excluded. If they are fairly large but open sided they should be noted as they will be worth less than the main building.

I'm in tribunal on tuesday where the VO are basing their case on floor size whilst I,m going on market value which is after all what we are trying to establish.

If you still cannot agree floor area with the VO get them to come out and measure up the house together. If they dont make this clear to the tribunal.
Regards
ExVOperson

lowest_3

Hi all,
I'm in the process of trying to get my current property rebanded and had a look at a property I used to own only to discover it has been rebanded.
Can I claim back the difference between the bands from the council for the years I paid the council tax even though I've now sold the property?
Cheer
Steve

vivatifosi

If it has been rebanded down then the answer should be yes. If you still live in the same council area, they may have a record of your address and forward you a cheque. When I got my house rebanded they automatically contacted the previous owner as they still lived in the town and had a record of their new address.

If you have moved out of the area or don't hear from them soon, then contact the Council Tax dept at the relevant council. It can take a good six weeks for the council to get the updates through from the VOA.

In terms of what you will receive back, check the "effective from" date recorded against your old house. You should get back the money equivalent to the difference between the two bands from either the effective from date or when you moved in (which ever is most recent) up to when you moved out.

littlepockets

exvoperson wrote: »

littlepockets wrote: »

The measurement the VOA use is called Gross External Area and this is defined as:-

'GEA will Include

1. Perimeter wall thickness' and external projections
2. Areas occupied by internal walls (whether structural or not) and partitions
3. Columns, piers, chimney breasts, stairwells, lift/wells etc
4. Lift rooms, plant rooms, tank rooms, fuel stores, whether or not above roof level
5. Open-sided covered areas (should be stated separately

GEA will Exclude

6. Open balconies
7. Open fire escapes
8. Open sided covered ways
9. Open vehicle parking areas, terraces and the like
10. Minor canopies
11. Any area with a headroom of less than 1·5m (except under stairways)
12. Any area under the control of service or other external authorities'

The definition relates to commercial property as well hence some of the terms but you will see that minor canopies are excluded. If they are fairly large but open sided they should be noted as they will be worth less than the main building.

I'm in tribunal on tuesday where the VO are basing their case on floor size whilst I,m going on market value which is after all what we are trying to establish.

If you still cannot agree floor area with the VO get them to come out and measure up the house together. If they dont make this clear to the tribunal.
Regards
ExVOperson

Thanks - I saw that the VOA website states canopies are excluded but the Listing officer said she's being doing measurements for 10 years and can't be wrong !! so i began to wonder does it come down to what is "minor". I've decided to exclude it and let the Tribunal decide at the next hearing.

The other thing I noticed is that my house is not square so taking one side and one length does not give a proper size so the Listing Officer is coming back to measure.

They seemed to be focused on price per M2.

Also realised on day of the adjourned hearing when she gave me her arguments that she had included evidence not previously disclosed which would help me so maybe a good thing the hearing was adjourned as I can also focus on market values.

Missing evidence was that her comparable properties are 4 bed whereas mine is a 3 bed (didn't realise this before as she had simply stated number of rooms).

So worth asking for a breakdown of rooms if they have not already disclosed it.