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  • FIRST POST
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 7th Jan 13, 4:36 PM
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    zeupater
    Solar ... In the news
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 13, 4:36 PM
    Solar ... In the news 7th Jan 13 at 4:36 PM
    Hi All

    Thought it was about time we had a thread specifically to discuss relevant press articles relating to solar pv & thermal ..... so here goes ...

    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 07-01-2013 at 4:48 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
Page 3
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 24th Jan 13, 2:48 PM
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    zeupater
    MASS PRODUCTION!

    Batteries and pumped storage have major issues.
    In principle, there isn't anything really hard about flywheel energy storage - it's just putting the money into getting the costs down, which nobodies done.
    The 'compress air to use in jet turbines and burn gas with for higher efficiency' is a neat wrinkle.
    Originally posted by rogerblack
    Hi

    At the moment it's nothing to do with 'mass production' or any particular technology .... it looks like it's simply establishing a framework for sector co-operation on product development & standardisation ... my guess is that it will lead to some form of financial assistance to the industry to encourage R&D with a further potential for initial federal (Germany !) financial support for early adopters of whatever solutions are deemed to be required.

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
  • Energetic
    Presented without comment:

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10201097.Police_swoop_on_solar_powered_drugs_facto ry/
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 1st Feb 13, 9:42 PM
    • 2,449 Posts
    • 4,267 Thanks
    EricMears
    Watch out chaps - we should all expect our front doors smashed in this weekend
    NE Derbyshire.
    4kWp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
  • Energetic
    Another story about renewables undercutting conventional energy prices amongst other things...

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100331611/COLUMNGerman_wind_power_irks_neighbouring_grids_Wy nn
  • spgsc531
    Sellafield clean-up cost reaches 67.5bn
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-21298117

    Not Solar in the news, but does make you think about the cost of FiT compared to the cost of Nuclear...
  • Energetic
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-21298117

    Not Solar in the news, but does make you think about the cost of FiT compared to the cost of Nuclear...
    Originally posted by spgsc531
    Glad its finally getting some coverage, people seem to think nuclear is cheap, dependable and hassle free. In reality its a money pit and we still don't have a credible long term plan to dispose of the waste. Expect more billions of tax payers money to follow...
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 4th Feb 13, 9:13 AM
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    Martyn1981
    I read a very interesting article in New Scientist this morning. Concerns the roll out of some very large batteries (pretty much as test plants at this stage) to help level out fluctuations in energy supply from wind farms.

    In my defence it does also contain these words " ...when the wind drops, the sun isn't shining.." so possibly something to watch for solar farms too, which could help there long-term business case.

    I've found a link to it here:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21729026.000-texas-megabattery-aims-to-green-up-the-grid.html

    some extracts:

    "In Modesto, a wind farm will be backed up by a 25 MW storage system based on a zinc-chloride flow battery, which is charged by filling with a reusable electrolyte liquid. The battery will replace a planned 50 MW fossil fuel plant."

    ""The whole goal is to build a grid that is flexible enough to achieve any level of renewables," says Kamath. "Limitations on the grid have made it look like renewables are a problem, but the grid was never designed for them. It needs to be," he adds."


    My understanding of this article, is that the batteries aren't there to supply power when the stations aren't running, but rather to level out export as generation goes up and down with wind speeds (or perhaps with solar fluctuations during cloudy skies)? Thus making export more consistent.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 4th Feb 13, 9:46 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Glad its finally getting some coverage, people seem to think nuclear is cheap, dependable and hassle free. In reality its a money pit and we still don't have a credible long term plan to dispose of the waste. Expect more billions of tax payers money to follow...
    Originally posted by Energetic
    Just to prove I'm not obsessed with PV or renewables only, I will point out that nuclear is low carbon (not green or renewable) but low carbon and does play a very important role in predictable baseload generation 24hrs day. Ignoring concerns over pollution, which is not an easy thing to do, nuclear should receive some credit (financially too) for offering a more predictable generation than renewables.

    Whilst I'd prefer it if we could drop nuclear, that doesn't seem quite possible today. The same goes for gas too, especially in a role as making up for fluctuating renewable generation.

    So I can't see how we can do without these technologies in the short to medium term .... but ...... absolutely agree that it's so important that people start to realise the real costs of the energy mix we have, and that a sizeable chunk of the renewable subsidies is there to make up for artificially low electricity prices, due to costs hidden in general taxation, so subsidies to balance out subsidies, leaving the highly transparent FITs to receive bad press, whilst hidden nuclear subsidies and carbon costs go largely unnoticed.

    Given the 70% drop in PV FITs last year I tried to compare domestic PV to large scale nuclear costs here:

    PV costs v's new nuclear.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Not sure if I'm close to the right numbers, but if so, then approx 5 years of large scale support for PV, has made new domestic PV costs in the UK (in the UK!!!!!) similar to new large scale nuclear after 50+ years of support. Plus PV subsidies are still falling, and generation starts within weeks of deciding to install, not 12 or so years later.

    (rant over)

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • spgsc531
    Solar undercuts Coal
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/05/first_solar_cheap_power_el_paso/

    Brave new world out there..
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 5th Feb 13, 3:27 PM
    • 9,273 Posts
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    rogerblack
    And New Mexico is perfectly situated to supply the UK evening peak load.

    Now, where did I put that extension flex...
  • Energetic
    Here's another... http://www.nanowerk.com/news2/green/newsid=28890.php
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 13, 9:02 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Sometimes it's best just to laugh!

    "Fox News Claims Solar Won't Work in America Because It's Not Sunny Like Germany"

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/07/fox_news_expert_on_solar_energy_germany_gets_a_lot _more_sun_than_we_do_video.html

    "According to maps put out by the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory, virtually the entirety of the continental United States gets more sun than even the sunniest part of Germany"

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Energetic
    Saw that one, great research. Fox news, news for people who don't want to know anything...
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 13th Feb 13, 8:22 AM
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    Cardew
    Sometimes it's best just to laugh!

    "Fox News Claims Solar Won't Work in America Because It's Not Sunny Like Germany"

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/07/fox_news_expert_on_solar_energy_germany_gets_a_lot _more_sun_than_we_do_video.html

    "According to maps put out by the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory, virtually the entirety of the continental United States gets more sun than even the sunniest part of Germany"

    Mart.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    The qualification to appear on Fox is to have nice legs and be able to slam Obama on every occasion.

    Actually much of what she said was correct(obviously excluding her wacky views on Germany's climate).

    Solar contributes one tenth of 1%(0.1%) to America's grid and has recieved Billions of dollars in subsidy($90 Billion??) and many companies have just gone bust. China just undercuts their prices.

    Bear in mind also that in large parts of the USA, for much of the year, peak demand is during the day(when PV output is highest) to run Air Conditioning

    Solyndra was one of the solar manufacturing companies listed in that clip as going bust after receiving US$535 million in subsidies(stimulus sic)

    'Google' the company!
  • Energetic
    The qualification to appear on Fox is to have nice legs and be able to slam Obama on every occasion.

    Actually much of what she said was correct(obviously excluding her wacky views on Germany's climate).

    Solar contributes one tenth of 1%(0.1%) to America's grid and has recieved Billions of dollars in subsidy($90 Billion??) and many companies have just gone bust. China just undercuts their prices.

    Bear in mind also that in large parts of the USA, for much of the year, peak demand is during the day(when PV output is highest) to run Air Conditioning

    Solyndra was one of the solar manufacturing companies listed in that clip as going bust after receiving US$535 million in subsidies(stimulus sic)

    'Google' the company!
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Solyndra was a farce, however the tentacles of Goldman Sachs aka the Vampire Squid were all over its demise. And they were handsomely rewarded for their efforts. When the banks are involved nothing is quite so straightforward.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/solyndra-schadenfreude-goldman-sachs-played-key-role
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Feb 13, 8:41 AM
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    • 13,668 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Bear in mind also that in large parts of the USA, for much of the year, peak demand is during the day(when PV output is highest) to run Air Conditioning
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Totally agree, one of the best things about PV is that all of its generation corresponds with heightened demand.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 13th Feb 13, 9:01 AM
    • 27,887 Posts
    • 13,746 Thanks
    Cardew
    Totally agree, one of the best things about PV is that all of its generation corresponds with heightened demand.

    Mart.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    ????

    Max demand in UK is late afternoon/early evening in Winter when PV produces zilch/zero - which is one of the worst things about PV
  • spgsc531
    ????

    Max demand in UK is late afternoon/early evening in Winter when PV produces zilch/zero - which is one of the worst things about PV
    Originally posted by Cardew
    cardew, why won't you answer this simple question?

    Isn't it strange that they can't answer the simple question

    For what specific reasons are you so anti-FiT?
    Originally posted by spgsc531
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Feb 13, 9:07 AM
    • 8,685 Posts
    • 13,668 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    ????

    Max demand in UK is late afternoon/early evening in Winter when PV produces zilch/zero - which is one of the worst things about PV
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Sorry, you misunderstand. I said that all PV generation corresponds with heightened demand. If you look at UK demand:

    http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/demand24.htm

    you'll see that during daylight hours, demand is well above baseload, making PV an excellent means to help reduce CO2.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 13th Feb 13, 11:08 AM
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    • 6,478 Thanks
    zeupater
    ... Solar contributes one tenth of 1%(0.1%) to America's grid and has recieved Billions of dollars in subsidy($90 Billion??) .....
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Hi

    Although it's correct to say that pv is currently contributing <0.1% of annual US energy (actually 0.04% in 2011), this must really be placed into context. Over the past few years the installed utility scale pv capacity in the USA has doubled each year (2009-473MWp, 2010-918MWp,2011-1855MWp). Additionally, considering that the total installed capacity was 2528MWp at ye2010 and 4383MWp at ye2011, it can be construed that small scale pv capacity increased from 1610MWp to 2528MWp during 2011, so an increase of ~900MWp of small-scale pv in a year. To place these figures in context, the UK's current total installed capacity is ~1500MWp. As at the mid point of 2012 the USA was actively constructing an additional 3400MWp of utility scale pv generation and has a further 20.6GWp currently planned.

    As can be seen, after a very slow start in accepting the technology within the USA, the growth in pv capacity is huge and accelerating quickly, it would therefore be appropriate to take this into consideration when viewing the future contribution of solar energy and not base conclusions on a historical point in time ....

    Will it really make a difference ? ... well at some time in the past <0.1% of the vehicles on the road were motorised, at other points <0.1% of household had electricity, televisions, radios, freezers, central heating, foreign holidays, etc .... technology, once consumers perceive the benefits and suppliers perceive the opportunities, has a habit of becoming pretty popular, pretty quickly .... americans may not have always been the ones who invented products, but they certainly have a history of rapid take-up of technologies once they have been accepted ....

    HTH
    Z

    Source Data :
    http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_States
    Last edited by zeupater; 13-02-2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Source data added
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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