We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Solar ... In the news

Options
1457910334

Comments

  • spgsc531
    spgsc531 Posts: 250 Forumite
    edited 14 February 2013 at 4:05PM
    Options
    Energetic, your link, led to this link which is very interesting.

    http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/solar-pv-reducing-price-of-electricity-in-germany/
  • Energetic_2
    Options
    Good find, i have seen the data before in other articles.

    The Germans are not stupid, they know it's reliable and dependable and it works. On a breezy sunny day German industry gets free energy to produce things with, what more could a major producing economy want!

    If Monbiot thinks Germany is going to disadvantage themselves internationally for the sake of having low carbon generation he clearly is a fool.
  • grahamc2003
    Options
    Energetic wrote: »
    Good find, i have seen the data before in other articles.

    The Germans are not stupid, they know it's reliable and dependable and it works. On a breezy sunny day German industry gets free energy to produce things with, what more could a major producing economy want!

    If Monbiot thinks Germany is going to disadvantage themselves internationally for the sake of having low carbon generation he clearly is a fool.

    Well they have been stupid in the past with their electricity policy, with their unreliable wind and solar penetration being greater than their grid could handle and maintain an acceptable risk. But as you say, they aren't stupid and have belatedly acknowledged realtiy, and currently have under construction 23 coal fired powerstations. They opened their newest 2.2GW coal station in August last year.

    The reporting of new coal stations seems to escape the press, with very little coverage. There are over 1000 coal stations planned at this moment worldwide, according to the graunaid, which I expect you will accept as unassailable information.

    (just as an aside, I think people should really try to assess the source of their information and not simply have a child-like acceptance of whatever is posted on the internet is a reasonable opinion. There is almost an infinite number of opinions on the net, it's so simple to google thousands you like and post them, but there relly isn't much value in them if they have no credibility).

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/20/coal-plants-world-resources-institute
  • grahamc2003
    Options
    Cardew wrote: »
    ????

    Max demand in UK is late afternoon/early evening in Winter when PV produces zilch/zero - which is one of the worst things about PV

    Yep, any generation which can't be relied upon to generate at the period of peak demand has to be duplicated with generation which can. In the area covered by our grid, that means either fossil or Nuclear powered. It means the capital costs are doubled for intermittent generation, and obviously those costs are in the billions on grid scale.

    It means for example, if we currently have the correct capacity of rth system risk we are prepared to take, then if we decommission 1GW of reliable capacity (i.e. coal, oil, gas or nuclear), then it is not replaceable by say 3.5gW of wind or solar (the 3.5gW comes from the 28% capacity factor of wind).

    If, as we are currently doing, and as Germany did several years ago, we build intermittent capacity, then we will still have to build equivalent reliable capacity for the same system risk - exactly as Germany is doing at the moment. As we are also doing on the quiet - the government is quietly enabling hundreds of small gas powerstations - 3gW recently commissioned - in order to reduce the system risk from the increasing intermittent generation.

    No one should be under any illusions as to why our energy bills are rising, and will continue to rise, as such a rapid rate of knots.
  • jamesingram
    jamesingram Posts: 301 Forumite
    edited 16 February 2013 at 12:52PM
    Options
    Europes energy portal , comparison of fuel prices through out the EU
    http://www.energy.eu/

    domestic retail:
    gas: UK 3rd cheapest out of 23 nations
    electricity: UK 11th cheapest out of 27 nations

    Currently 26.6% dependant on imports , 3rd least dependant on imports out of 27 nations

    Share of renewable energy generation .
    9.2% ( 2011-12 average ) :)edited as i miss read Eu portal data, so no not top of the list ( what was I thinking :) ).

    Looking at these comparisons to other EU nations we seem to be doing not as bad as some people make out.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,840 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    2GW of PV in the UK

    "The strong performance of the UK market belies the difficult period that the UK PV industry faced at the end of 2011 after damaging cuts to the feed-in tariff and a period of uncertainty. Solarbuzz reports that the UK solar industry is now benefitting from predictable feed-in tariff and Renewable Obligation regimes, which is being reflected in strong demand from both residential and ground-mount segments."

    http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/report_uk_solar_pv_installations_top_2gw_2356?

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,840 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    India plans to install 30GW of additional renewables 2013-2017, including 10GW of PV.

    http://www.renewindians.com/2012/12/Indian-Power-Generation-sector-in-2012.html

    http://panchabuta.com/2012/12/10/india-targets-30-gw-of-renewable-energy-capacity-addition-in-12th-plan-period/

    Hopefully other countries can take over the heavy lifting (from Germany) of maintaining high PV demand.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • grahamc2003
    Options
    Europes energy portal , comparison of fuel prices through out the EU
    http://www.energy.eu/

    domestic retail:
    gas: UK 3rd cheapest out of 23 nations
    electricity: UK 11th cheapest out of 27 nations

    Currently 26.6% dependant on imports , 3rd least dependant on imports out of 27 nations

    Share of renewable consumption to gross final energy consumption.
    12.8% top of the list :)

    Looking at these comparisons to other EU nations we seem to be doing not as bad as some people make out.

    Not sure if the last sentence is a swipe at me or not, but I didn't mention our electricity costs relative to others - I just stated the fact that our electricity prices are rapidly rising, and I'm certain hat they'll rise rapidly for many years yet.

    We've had the most efficient electricity supply system for many decades (the Uk's model was followed by many other countries, with the cegb implementing grid systems all over the world). It's only the last decade or two when inefficiencies of many types have been imposed on the electricity supply industry. Our bills are cheaper than others from this legacy efficiency, hence the rapid recent rises as we transition to a very inefficient model.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,840 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    Not sure if the last sentence is a swipe at me or not, but I didn't mention our electricity costs relative to others - I just stated the fact that our electricity prices are rapidly rising, and I'm certain hat they'll rise rapidly for many years yet.

    Our bills are cheaper than others from this legacy efficiency, hence the rapid recent rises as we transition to a very inefficient model.

    Actually our bills are/were cheaper due to the discovery of a source of cheap gas, which is now dwindling, and the vast nuclear subsidies being hidden in general taxation.

    The problem with hiding subsidies, is that:-
    It tricks people over prices.
    Reduces the financial benefits from efficiency savings.
    Makes it harder for industrial scale competition, such as renewables, as the playing field isn't level.
    Makes it harder for micro scale competition due to the artificially reduced savings (reducing consumption won't reduce the tax burden).

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,840 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    Some extracts:

    "Solar power reached 100GW installed capacity in 2012 for the first time, according to data from the European Photovoltaic Industry Association (EPIA), up from 71GW in 2011 and just 40GW in 2010. The largest market by far is Europe, with Germany (32GW total) and Italy (16GW) the leaders. But while solar panel connections in Europe fell by 5GW in 2012 compared to the previous year, installations rose by 5GW in the rest of the world, notable China, the US, Japan and India."

    "More than 45GW of new wind turbines arrived in 2012, with China and the US leading the way with 13GW each, while Germany, India and the UK were next with about 2GW apiece."

    "The UK is by far the world leader in offshore wind deployment, installing 0.85MW (sic 0.85GW!) in 2012 to bring the total so far to 3GW. Denmark has a total of 0.9GW installed; Belgium is ranked third with 0.4GW."


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/feb/11/wind-power-capacity-grew-2012

    Tidy!

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 12 Election 2024: The MSE Leaders' Debate
  • 344.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.4K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 450.1K Spending & Discounts
  • 236.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 609.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.5K Life & Family
  • 248.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards