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District Enforcement - Chancers!

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  • Tentatively
    Tentatively Posts: 26 Forumite
    edited 18 January 2019 at 10:10PM
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    Reply is as follows, thoughts on how to proceed?
    I would advise that I have investigated the points noted and provide a summary response as follows:
    1. Parking enforcement at property was required due to local businesses and visitors. I can confirm we hold no affiliation with District Enforcement, other than as a third-
    party service provider. We do not enforce parking nor receive any fees from District Enforcement for
    provision of their services. However, as a gesture of goodwill I can confirm that Property
    Manager, made contact on your behalf to request consideration for charges to be waived on this occasion.
    This was agreed, and the parking fine has therefore been rescinded.
    In relation to parking enforcement services, as managing agents we ensure the provider; deals with issuing
    all permits, that signs are clearly displayed, photographs are taken of vehicles which are not displaying
    permits and that there is an appeals process in place. We have therefore upheld our management
    obligations.
    2. Primacy of contract is a moot point regarding the provision of parking enforcement. I would refer you to
    1.1.14 of Schedule 7 : Part 1 of the lease which states as follows in relation to services which may be
    provided by the Landlord:
    1.1.14 any other service or amenity that the Landlord may in its reasonable discretion (acting in
    accordance with the principles of good estate management) provide for the benefit of the tenants
    and occupiers of the Building.
    3. Virtually every lease contains a quiet enjoyment clause. It is a promise by a landlord to allow a tenant to
    use a space for the purpose for which it was leased and to not substantially interfere with that use. Your
    claim that enforcement of parking is a breach of this clause is incorrect.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,843 Forumite
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    1.1.14 any other service or amenity that the Landlord may in its reasonable discretion (acting in accordance with the principles of good estate management) provide for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building.
    I wonder how slapping a £60 charge on them is "for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building"?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,481 Forumite
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    edited 18 January 2019 at 10:31PM
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    Parking enforcement at property was required due to local businesses and visitors.
    No, the key fob gated system would deal with that, and allow residents to have the peaceful enjoyment without harassment, that is already granted in their leases.
    I can confirm we hold no affiliation with District Enforcement, other than as a third-party service provider.
    Why did you believe their spiel and not Google them first? The rudeness on the phone and aggression that I have documented, typifies their behaviour, as is repeatedly reported online. And when I say 'Google' I don't mean to read their own website. Even if they were friendly, they still sue people - do you honestly think that is acceptable?

    Why did you not undertake a questionnaire and vote from all residents in advance, to see if there was the required consensus to vary the lease and impose charges and restrictions where there were none before? The Landlord and Tenant Act sets out the simple requirements for landowners and Managing Agents, and you ignore that at your peril.

    Where was your due diligence to protect residents from these predators?
    Primacy of contract is a moot point regarding the provision of parking enforcement.
    No, it most certainly is not. Imposing a hated parking firm to sue us, is not 'providing for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building.'

    This is a derogation from grant, and you are liable for your conduct and that of your agent, in riding roughshod over the rights and interests of your residents. Transcripts attached here may help you understand you error, which will now result in a complaint to an appropriate lease tribunal (please provide me with the required ADR details):

    http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

    ( click on, save and attach the bottom 5 cases there - don't show them the Parking Prankster link!).


    Kindly call your dogs off.

    Should DE ever ticket cars in my space again, and/or obtain my (or my visitors') data from the DVLA, I will sue the MA and DE jointly for harassment and data misuse, as there is no legitimate interest in charging residents, and you are guilty of a derogation from grant.

    You have the option to put in the key fob system, as promised. I suggest you do so, and kick DE out forthwith/give notice for them to quit the site and inform them that my vehicles and space are exempt from their little game.

    If you remain unsure of your position, I suggest you seek legal advice but you have already been informed that my space is lawfully opted out of any 'parking scheme' you think you can impose on me, contrary to the rights and easements I already enjoy.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Tentatively
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    Cheers both!

    I'm away from home and my laptop right now so I'll action this when I return home.
  • Tentatively
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    Here's the reply I've drafted, once again :rotfl:
    Tentatviely
    ADDRESS
    Tuesday 22nd January 2019

    MA

    MA ADDRESS

    Dear MA,

    I write to you in response to your reply dated 18 January 2019. I have read your response and my response is as follows.

    Your point referring me to 1.1.14 of Schedule 7 is extremely helpful. Could you please inform me what the principles of good estate management are and who they were set out by?

    The clause states that the service or amenity provided is ‘for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building’ and that the Landlord must use ‘reasonable discretion’. The parking conditions displayed on the signs allow for charging of residents if they do not display a permit, even if they have a right to park there. How is that for the benefit of myself and other residents who have the right to park?

    You cannot provide a service to me which restricts my right to park only when a permit is displayed. It is not a service, but a penalty. This is not in the interest of residents who rightfully park.

    I would refer you to case law from the Croydon County Court, specifically
    CS034 PACE v Mr N C6GF14F0.

    I invite you to read the opening paragraph, which is a near identical situation to the one we find ourselves in. In brief, it was found that in order to impose parking restrictions on residents the Lessee must amend the terms of the Lease to restrict the right to park. The Landlord and Tenants Act stipulates that they must apply for a variation of the Lease and reach a consensus to do so. No such variation has been made.

    I also note that no official communication has been received from MA regarding any enforcement of parking, only a letter from District Enforcement, which I can provide if requested. Please advise me if this is incorrect and the date of any correspondence relating to parking enforcement restrictions from MA.

    I put it to you that you have not used reasonable and sound judgement in selecting a parking enforcement company whose terms allow for charging and pursuing legal action against tenants who have the right to park.

    Your point stating virtually every lease contains a quiet enjoyment clause is correct and they do so for good reason. If I were to lose or have my permit stolen, I would be required to pay for a new one, would I not? And without a permit I would be indiscriminately charged and threatened with legal action for parking in my rightful space, would I not? Please tell me how that would not constitute substantial interference with using my parking space.
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    Again, I request you instruct District Enforcement Ltd to cease and desist from enforcing unlawful parking terms on my parking space.

    I hereby put you on notice that should District Enforcement ever ticket cars in my space again, and/or obtain my (or my visitors') data from the DVLA, I will sue MA and District Enforcement jointly for harassment and data misuse, as there is no legitimate interest in charging residents who have the right to park, and you are guilty of a derogation from grant.

    If you remain unsure of your position, I suggest you seek legal advice, but you have already been informed that my space is lawfully opted out of any 'parking scheme' you think you can impose on me, contrary to the rights and easements I already enjoy.

    Sincerely,
    Tentatively


    :money:
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,481 Forumite
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    Brilliant!

    You might want to send a pm to safarmuk and read his thread from today.

    He is a regular poster who went off forum for a while, during which hiatus he took 2 years or more to successfully get his fellow residents to rise up and get a PPC removed and the MA changed!

    :)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,460 Forumite
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    Super job Tentatively. Do please let us know how it progresses.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Tentatively
    Tentatively Posts: 26 Forumite
    edited 5 February 2019 at 1:32PM
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    The mind boggles.
    1) Your point referring me to 1.1.14 of Schedule 7 is extremely helpful. Could you please inform me what the principles of good estate management are and who they were set out by?

    Response:
    As voluntary members of ARMA (Association of Residential Managing Agents) and RICS (Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, both of whom are regulatory bodies for the industry, we adhere to their Codes of Practice. These documents included good estate management and are available for review online.


    2) The clause states that the service or amenity provided is 'for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building' and that the Landlord must use 'reasonable discretion'. The parking conditions displayed on the signs allow for charging of residents if they do not display a permit, even if they have a right to park there. How is that for the benefit of myself and other residents who have the right to park? You cannot provide a service to me which restricts my right to park only when a permit is displayed. It is not a service, but a penalty. This is not in the interest of residents who rightfully park.

    Response:
    If a valid permit is on display, residents do not receive a parking fine. Those who have parked illegally i.e. non-residents, are provided with a ticket. The property had ongoing issues with commercial parking and parking by those utilising the commercial unit. We therefore strongly dispute the services provided, by use of a parking enforcement company, are not beneficial to residents.

    3) I would refer you to case law from the Croydon County Court, specifically CS034 PACE v Mr N COGF14F0.

    Response: The caselaw referenced is specific to a tenancy agreement, not a lease and is therefore not applicable to your complaint.

    4) I invite you to read the opening paragraph, which is a near identical situation to the one we find ourselves
    in. In brief, it was found that in order to impose parking restrictions on residents the Lessee must amend the terms of the Lease to restrict the right to park. The Landlord and Tenants Act stipulates that they must apply for a variation of the Lease and reach a consensus to do so. No such variation has been made. I also note that no official communication has been received from IPM regarding any enforcement of parking, only a letter from District Enforcement, which I can provide if requested. Please advise me if this is incorrect and the date of any correspondence relating to parking enforcement restrictions from IPM.

    Response: Your statement is incorrect. The County Court have no powers in relation to a leasehold dispute. This would have been held by The First Tier Tribunal (Property Chamber). I would again refer you to clause 1.1.14 of Schedule 7 as noted within Wendy's original complaint response. Clauses of this nature are known as a Sweep Clause or Sweeping Clause as it implies the clause will "sweep in" or "collect" any items that may have otherwise been missed; consequently, the sweeping clause is a clause wide in range or effect that collects what might otherwise be missed. A letter was issued by the Property Manager on 13 August 2018, which I have attached for your records. This was sent to owners and subtenants, where known. Your statement is therefore incorrect.

    (They didn't attach the letter and we received no letter)

    5) I put it to you that you have not used reasonable and sound judgement in selecting a parking enforcement
    company whose terms allow for charging and pursuing legal action against tenants who have the right to park.

    Response: Your statement is disputed due to the information we have provided.

    6) Your point stating virtually every lease contains a quiet enjoyment clause is correct and they do so for good reason. If I were to lose or have my permit stolen, I would be required to pay for a new one, would I not? And without a permit I would be indiscriminately charged and threatened with legal action for parking in my rightful space, would I not? Please tell me how that would not constitute substantial interference with using my parking space.

    Response: I confirm you would be required to obtain a replacement permit should yours become lost or stolen. This would be the same situation should you have an entrance fob to a car park with a gate/barrier, which are also a preventative measure to assist residents in relation to illegal parking on site.

    7) Again, I request you instruct District Enforcement Ltd to cease and desist from enforcing unlawful parking
    terms on my parking space.

    Response: The parking enforcement will remain in operation at the property. Should you fail to display a valid parking permit you will be treated as per any other resident and receive a parking enforcement notice. Your statement in relation to enforcing unlawful parking terms is incorrect.

    8) I hereby put you on notice that should District Enforcement ever ticket cars in my space again, and/or
    obtain my (or my visitors') data from the DVLA, I will sue IPM and District Enforcement jointly for harassment and data misuse, as there is no legitimate interest in charging residents who have the right to park, and you are guilty of a derogation from grant.

    Response: A derogation from grant is an implied term within a lease and therefore open to interpretation. It is the general legal principle that if the landlord agrees to give a benefit to the leaseholder, then the landlord should not proceed to do something that substantially deprives the leaseholder of the enjoyment of that benefit. I would that reiterate that parking enforcement was put in place due to illegal parking by those who did not reside at the development. The landlord thereby provided parking enforcement for the benefit of the residents to prevent use of their spaces by others.


    There is no misuse of data despite your assertions to the contrary. However, should you wish to escalate this I would propose you liaise with the Information Commissioners Office who will be able to provide clarity.

    9) If you remain unsure of your position, I suggest you seek legal advice, but you have already been informed that my space is lawfully opted out of any 'parking scheme' you think you can impose on me, contrary to the rights and easements I already enjoy.

    Response: I assure you we are fully aware of our legal position. Furthermore I would confirm you are unable to opt out of a parking enforcement scheme adopted by our client at their development.
    What'd you reckon? LBA & First Tier Tribunal? Property Ombudsman for financial compensation relating to shoddy Customer Service? :mad:


    Not really excited to drop £200 to take it to the FTT...
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    LBA
    Injunction preventingthem from interrfering with your quiet enjoyment.
  • Tentatively
    Tentatively Posts: 26 Forumite
    edited 5 February 2019 at 6:08PM
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    Here we go.

    I don't want to come across as too aggressive towards the land owner as I'm not even sure he's aware of the events that have transpired.

    Any suggestions welcome!
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I am writing in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct with regards to the following matters which have arisen between us:

    On the 22nd October 2018, I received a Parking Charge Notice from your agent District Enforcement Limited, for an alleged non-display of a parking permit. This was later cancelled after intervention from Inspired Property Management confirming I had displayed a valid permit and the PCN was issued “in error”. District Enforcement had insisted for months that I had not displayed a permit and persisted in demanding payment.

    I do not trust or believe your agents to be competent in fair parking enforcement. Therefore, on the 13th January 2019, I raised a formal complaint with your Management Agent requesting that the parking space, which was paid for and demised to the Leaseholder, be opted out of the car parking scheme as enforcement of parking upon this space is derogation from grant. I have spoken to your management agent on behalf of the Leaseholder as they are a family member and have given me authority to do so.

    Your Management Agents have repeatedly dismissed my simple request that the apartment be opted out of the parking scheme which states I will receive a PCN if I do not display a permit, even if I have the right to park in the parking space. This is unlawful as this is not stated in the Lease and no variation to the Lease has been made.

    As a result of these matters, I am entitled to and intend to claim the sum of £250 plus legal costs.

    In addition, I also claim the following:

    Exemption from any parking scheme your agents insist on imposing.

    I intend to rely on the following documents in support of my claim:

    The lease between yourself and the leaseholder of Apartment.

    PACE vs Mr N Case No. C6GF14F0
    Link Parking vs Parkinson Case No. C7GF50J7
    Jopson vs Homeguard Case No. 9GF0A9E

    The above are all case law which set precedent for private parking enforcement on residential land. I would invite you to read them online as they are easily accessible.

    If you dispute my claim, I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.

    In this regard, I would invite you to put forward any proposals.

    In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

    I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days.

    Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.
    Yours sincerely,
    Tentatively
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