ESA Assessment - Another query sorry

jerryse · 18 June 2018 at 6:34PM

I know there is a similar thread running but I have a slightly different situation.

I have been claiming ESA since April and have an assessment on Friday. I am simply signed off by a GP with nothing but 'anxiety'.

I am seeing a councillor who has just started an 8 week course with me t go over deeper mental issues to do with my self esteem and the fact my last job left my deeply depressed. I have also just joined Narcotics Anon and see a councillor for my drinking.

What I need really is to stay on ESA a couple more months and get my counselling course done to over come my anxieties.

My question is... can an ESA Assessment really override the doctors note and councillors observations? I've been told not to throw myself into any old job since my last left me suicidal? And is there anything I can say or shouldn't say to help my score? I've worked and never claimed anything since 17 and at 32 I've hit a horrible bout of depression and anxiety and now I feel they are going to try and kick me off it at the expense of my mental health and thats what the goal of this assessment is. What if they kick me off and flung into deeper depression and back into drugs and alcohol and possible suicide? Do they think like that?

I wouldn't mind but its been 2 months I've claimed out of my 32 years on earth and the thought of having to job hunt for any old job 35 hours a week for my 250 pounds housing benefit and enough money for bills... I know I'll just go right back into my old type of work and into drugs again.

Needless to say my anxiety and stress is now in overdrive and I feel like they are going to try and talk me into saying things that mark my score down.

poppy12345 · 18 June 2018 at 6:55PM

A DWP decision maker will override any GP/Consultant yes.

Did you send in evidence to support your claim? They very rarely contact anyone for this, the onus is on you to make sure it's sent.

With the ESA assessment you'll be assessed based on the work you can do rather than the work you can't do.

Have you taken a look at the descriptors for each of the groups to see which you think you should be placed into?

WRAG here and for this you need to score at least 15 points.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1354-work-related-activity-group-descriptors

Support Group here. For this you need to satisfy at least one of them and it's not about scoring points.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

There's also reg 35 for Support Group entry, see this link.
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exception

During the assessment you should answer all those questions with as much info as possible about how your conditions affect you. Good luck.

jerryse · 18 June 2018 at 7:02PM

Yes I've sent them all the GP notes.

I'm just going to hope for the best but when it comes to mental health I would have thought they'd go with the GP.

poppy12345 · 18 June 2018 at 7:08PM

jerryse wrote: »

Yes I've sent them all the GP notes.

I'm just going to hope for the best but when it comes to mental health I would have thought they'd go with the GP.

That's not always the case, unfortunately. Please take a look at the links i posted, as they will help you to understand which group you think you should be placed into.

jerryse · 18 June 2018 at 7:30PM

Yes I will.

I just feel a bit dejected that me explaining that losing my ESA will most likely send me spiralling into a bender and further depression rather than help get me back in work. Then possibly homelessness and harder drugs.... i just need a few months to pick myself up, this has really freaked me out.

jerryse · 18 June 2018 at 7:32PM

Will it rake a month or so to hear back meaning I'm probably not going to cut off even if I do for at least 30 days or so? and how do they transition you onto JSA?

poppy12345 · 18 June 2018 at 7:46PM

jerryse wrote: »

Will it rake a month or so to hear back meaning I'm probably not going to cut off even if I do for at least 30 days or so? and how do they transition you onto JSA?

I know it's not so easy not to worry but the more you worry the worse it will be. Try to relax, if possible.

If you have someone to go with you on the day it will help. They won't be able to answer those questions for you unless they are you appointee but they can prompt you. It will also help with your anxiety too.

There's no times scales to decisions and it could take anything from 2+ weeks. It really depends on the backlog in your area. Try not to think of the negative things at this point and concentrate on that assessment and which group you think you should be in.

Here's a guide to the assessment, which may help you further.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/esa-medical-assessment/

I'm sure others will post their advice once they see this. Good luck.

jerryse · 18 June 2018 at 8:02PM

I'm not faking my anxiety, i was relaxed about this until i read a guardian article.

Will it help my case if I say I'm using this time to attend AA and NA meetings to keep me off drugs and booze and seeing two councillors and being switched to JSA will cripple the great road I've just put myself on finally? and that it could make my suicidal depression worse?

Im a 32 year old male, suicidal in the middle of a huge male suicide epidemic, no family and no support so the doctors are all over me and advising me to stay out of work and get into 1-2 AA or NA meetings a day.... I just feel like their questions do not bend towards caring about any of that...

Most are about physical disability - it just looks a sh*t show tbh.

I just figured I'd go and discuss what the doctors have said not be scored on a points system.

I have literally nobody I can take, this is part of why I'm so suicidal. I have no self esteem and nobody talk to. I wonder if I should ring ESA and voice my concerns and see if I can get it pushed back a bit.

Alice_Holt · 18 June 2018 at 8:17PM

jerryse wrote: »

I just feel a bit dejected that me explaining that losing my ESA will most likely send me spiralling into a bender and further depression rather than help get me back in work. Then possibly homelessness and harder drugs.... i just need a few months to pick myself up, this has really freaked me out.

I would explain this to the assessor - along with why your last job left you depressed.
Also explain what might trigger a relapse into drinks and drug use.
If there is any specific cause of your anxiety and poor mental health (abuse as a child, death / suicide of a loved one), then make this known.

Look carefully at Reg 29 (covered in poppy's CPAG link) which is significant risk to health if found fit for work. Google ESA reg 29 for more info.
The Benefit & Work guides are very good:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/images/image/samples/esa/mh_wca_may13.pdf
That's a sample from 2013.
The full 2018 guide is available to members only. Membership costs c.£20 pa - might be worth considering.

I'd make some notes to take to the assessment, to help you explain to the assessor why you might be at significant risk. If the assessor accepts this, you don't need to score the 15 points from the descriptors.

However, it's important to go through the descriptors as well and see were you could get the 15 points (should the assessor decide against Reg 29).

These may apply?
13. Initiating and completing personal action (which means planning, organisation, problem solving, prioritising or switching tasks).
16. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
14. Coping with change
As a consequence of anxiety and depression.
Do go carefully through the descriptors. If you need more info on interpretation of these descriptors, google WCA handbook and look what it says about that descriptor.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/715195/wca-handbook.pdf
Pages - 118 to 137.

Again have some notes / examples around the relevant descriptors to get to the necessary 15 points to tell the assessor about. You may need to be persistent to get your points across . Info on assessment here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/esa-medical-assessment/

w06 · 18 June 2018 at 8:21PM

HI Jerry, Important thing to remember is that there are many many people claiming ESA and other benefits who went through the assessment process without problem and were appropriately placed in the correct group according to their capabilities. There are of course people who have not received good assessments, or appropriate decisions, and who have struggled whilst they try to negotiate the system, and others who believe they should receive something to which they're not entitled.

The folk whose experience goes smoothly don't tend to post on fora like these, and don't make good newspaper stories, and so there's a tendency to hear a very skewed picture of the benefits system.

Do your best to relax, go to the assessment and be yourself, be open and honest with the assessor. They're there to place you in the appropriate category of fit to work, not fit to work, not fit to do work related activity. Don't think beyond that for now.

Worst case scenario you'll be found fit to work - doesn't sound likely - and need to claim job seekers allowance, it is possible to do that and then submit a sick note for I think it's 13 weeks.

For now focus on relaxing and deal with friday when it comes.

Alice_Holt · 18 June 2018 at 8:35PM

jerryse wrote: »

Will it help my case if I say I'm using this time to attend AA and NA meetings to keep me off drugs and booze and seeing two councillors and being switched to JSA will cripple the great road I've just put myself on finally? and that it could make my suicidal depression worse?

Im a 32 year old male, suicidal in the middle of a huge male suicide epidemic, no family and no support so the doctors are all over me and advising me to stay out of work and get into 1-2 AA or NA meetings

Yes it will. This directly relates to Reg 29.

Remember you have appeal rights if it doesn't go well.
Once the appeal is lodged with the Tribunal Service (TS) your ESA payments can be restated pending the appeal hearing. Currently the TS has long waits, so it could be some months whilst you are still getting ESA and waiting for your appeal to be heard.
I won't go into details now - but mention it so you know there is an alternative to being pushed onto JSA.
Here is a link on this topic. See the Restoration of ESA pending appeal para:
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/benefit-during-employment-and-support-allowance-dispute

Your focus now should be on preparing for the assessment on Friday- based on Reg 29 and the mental health descriptors. Go carefully through the links and posts poppy and I have given you.
Here's another link to Rethink (https://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/work-capability-assessment) who have a helpline

Best wishes

ESA Assessment - Another query sorry

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