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  • FIRST POST
    • redlfc
    • By redlfc 12th Jan 19, 9:03 AM
    • 101Posts
    • 31Thanks
    redlfc
    How much have you made since investing in VLS/FTSE Global All Cap?
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:03 AM
    How much have you made since investing in VLS/FTSE Global All Cap? 12th Jan 19 at 9:03 AM
    Cant find a specific thread on this - would be useful to know!

    1) How many years have you invested for and how much have you invested
    2) How much do you now have in the ISA/SIPP?
Page 1
    • Bravepants
    • By Bravepants 12th Jan 19, 9:06 AM
    • 532 Posts
    • 643 Thanks
    Bravepants
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:06 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:06 AM
    You should be able to work this out for yourself from the performance graphs.



    Are you just looking for opinion about how good or bad the fund is?
    • Linton
    • By Linton 12th Jan 19, 9:17 AM
    • 10,189 Posts
    • 10,571 Thanks
    Linton
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:17 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:17 AM
    https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/o/ngly/vanguard-ftse-global-all-cap-index-a-acc-gbp


    It was only launched a couple of years ago.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Jan 19, 9:54 AM
    • 12,103 Posts
    • 14,173 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:54 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:54 AM
    Cant find a specific thread on this - would be useful to know!

    1) How many years have you invested for and how much have you invested
    2) How much do you now have in the ISA/SIPP?
    Originally posted by redlfc
    Why would it be useful to know ? As said, it would be easy to work out from historical prices what any particular investment would now be worth. But so what? That wouldn't be any use to person D to know that person A made 59k person B made 10k and person C lost 30k. It's just a function of when and how much they invested.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • A_T
    • By A_T 12th Jan 19, 10:11 AM
    • 597 Posts
    • 430 Thanks
    A_T
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:11 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:11 AM
    If you'd invested 1000 in a FTSE World tracker in January 1995 it would now be worth over 6000.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    • 12,103 Posts
    • 14,173 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    If you'd invested 1000 in a FTSE World tracker in January 1995 it would now be worth over 6000.
    Originally posted by A_T
    What about March 2003?.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • A_T
    • By A_T 12th Jan 19, 10:24 AM
    • 597 Posts
    • 430 Thanks
    A_T
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:24 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:24 AM
    What about March 2003?.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    5000!

    [with dividends reinvested, of course]

    save, invest, accumulate, compound
    • redlfc
    • By redlfc 12th Jan 19, 11:16 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    redlfc
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:16 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:16 AM
    Why would it be useful to know ? As said, it would be easy to work out from historical prices what any particular investment would now be worth. But so what? That wouldn't be any use to person D to know that person A made 59k person B made 10k and person C lost 30k. It's just a function of when and how much they invested.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    i know past performance has no indication on future - i am investing in the fund and will so for the next 30 years + regardless - i just out of interest want to know how people who invested in VLS for the past 7/8 years have done

    not just that fund tbh more so investing in S+S in general over past 20 years - obviously complete differences depending on what was invested in
    • TCA
    • By TCA 12th Jan 19, 11:43 AM
    • 1,366 Posts
    • 811 Thanks
    TCA
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:43 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:43 AM
    i know past performance has no indication on future - i am investing in the fund and will so for the next 30 years + regardless - i just out of interest want to know how people who invested in VLS for the past 7/8 years have done
    Originally posted by redlfc
    There are different versions of VLS. Just go to Vanguard's website, Trustnet, Morningstar, Hargreaves Lansdown (or any other broker website) and check the performance.

    not just that fund tbh more so investing in S+S in general over past 20 years - obviously complete differences depending on what was invested in
    Originally posted by redlfc
    Take the worst case scenario of people who lost everything they invested, compare to those who have invested in the best performing assets over the past 20 years and just about every reply you'd get will be somewhere in between. It's a pointless question, especially as most people are probably still invested so haven't "made" anything.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 12th Jan 19, 12:13 PM
    • 61,637 Posts
    • 54,870 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    i know past performance has no indication on future - i am investing in the fund and will so for the next 30 years + regardless
    Originally posted by redlfc
    Why regardless. Won't you be tempted to switch tack once the fad changes to something else. Once something is identified as being a good idea then everybody jumps on board. Which over time negates the return. Investing is like the wind. Changes direction at a moments notice.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 12th Jan 19, 12:30 PM
    • 4,242 Posts
    • 3,566 Thanks
    Alexland
    I once read interesting research into platform fund trades that suggested that DIY investors often do around 1/3 worse than their fund average long term returns not just because of platform costs but because they tend to buy and sell at the wrong times.

    Alex
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Jan 19, 2:14 PM
    • 735 Posts
    • 493 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I once read interesting research into platform fund trades that suggested that DIY investors often do around 1/3 worse than their fund average long term returns not just because of platform costs but because they tend to buy and sell at the wrong times.

    Alex
    Originally posted by Alexland

    I think that is why a good approach is to buy and hold until such times you need to draw an income from investments and stay invested rather than timing.



    I don't invest in stocks with the view to taking the capital out but with the view to future income streams from dividends and sensible withdrawal rates in the future.
    • redlfc
    • By redlfc 12th Jan 19, 2:47 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    redlfc
    I think that is why a good approach is to buy and hold until such times you need to draw an income from investments and stay invested rather than timing.



    I don't invest in stocks with the view to taking the capital out but with the view to future income streams from dividends and sensible withdrawal rates in the future.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    the thing is how do you know when the right time is to withdraw - say youve been investing 20 years but are currently at a bad period where markets have taken a nosedive - are you not always at the perils of the market
    • coastline
    • By coastline 12th Jan 19, 2:54 PM
    • 977 Posts
    • 1,119 Thanks
    coastline
    The MSCI World , two VLS funds and a L & G fund all on one chart.
    VLS 100% has underperformed the MSCI world index partly due to the UK allocation it holds.
    VLS 60% and L&G Multi Index 5 have produced similar returns. Both funds are regularly highlighted on this forum.
    What can be seen is performance over the last 6 months which includes the recent downturn in the markets.
    MSCI has fallen 3.7% and VLS 60% 2.2% so if we were to multiply those figures by 10 we would get major crash levels , 37% and 22%.
    Just shows how volatile it can be even in defensive funds.

    https://www2.trustnet.com/Tools/Charting.aspx?typeCode=NM990100,FACDV,FACDQ,FJ84X
    • redlfc
    • By redlfc 12th Jan 19, 3:00 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    redlfc
    What would be interesting to know is if there are people who have passively invested in low cost global trackers/index funds for 10+ years and have made a loss. Or even more so for 20+ years

    I completely understanding of the risk in the markets and the dips but my understanding is long term they should beat cash ISAs and the like. Were I to check my investment in 10-15 years or so and see I had less than what I had put in - I think I would be disapppointed
    • A_T
    • By A_T 12th Jan 19, 3:15 PM
    • 597 Posts
    • 430 Thanks
    A_T
    What would be interesting to know is if there are people who have passively invested in low cost global trackers/index funds for 10+ years and have made a loss. Or even more so for 20+ years
    Originally posted by redlfc
    There's unlikely to be anyone who has made a loss investing in a global index tracker for 10+ years.
    • coastline
    • By coastline 12th Jan 19, 3:24 PM
    • 977 Posts
    • 1,119 Thanks
    coastline
    What would be interesting to know is if there are people who have passively invested in low cost global trackers/index funds for 10+ years and have made a loss. Or even more so for 20+ years

    I completely understanding of the risk in the markets and the dips but my understanding is long term they should beat cash ISAs and the like. Were I to check my investment in 10-15 years or so and see I had less than what I had put in - I think I would be disapppointed
    Originally posted by redlfc
    First chart shows the market downturns over the last century and its possible to be involved in two recessions in a 10-15 year span.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvhGM0iXgAAnKDl.jpg

    Cash investors have faired poorly since the financial crisis. The link between base rates and inflation was clearly broken in 2008.

    https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/inflation-interest-rates.png

    Global trackers as far as I understand have become more popular since year 2000 onwards. Set the chart below to various 10 year periods to give an example of historic returns.

    https://www2.trustnet.com/Tools/Charting.aspx?typeCode=NM990100
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Jan 19, 3:24 PM
    • 735 Posts
    • 493 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    the thing is how do you know when the right time is to withdraw - say youve been investing 20 years but are currently at a bad period where markets have taken a nosedive - are you not always at the perils of the market
    Originally posted by redlfc

    Nobody knows that. But you would hope in 20 years time, you should have come through some up's and downs with some growth overall in a diversified portfolio in a long term timescale.



    You can only withdraw and deal with the market conditions at your time of needing to withdraw some income, the outcome at whatever point that will be is totally unknown. So I will deal with that at the time so to speak.



    If you invest in income producting investments too, you should have some form of dividend income and if re-investing to that point of taking it over a long timescale that income stream should grow from compounding.



    Personally I will stick to a strategy and not worry now what will be at the point in time I would like to withdraw some income, as I simply don't know what the market will be then and either does anyone but over a long time frame and keeping invested I will hope now for the best.
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 12-01-2019 at 3:27 PM.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 12th Jan 19, 5:42 PM
    • 4,284 Posts
    • 3,297 Thanks
    Tarambor
    Given how closely my VLS80 fund tracks the Global All Cap, falling and rising at the same times by roughly the same amount with a fraction of a percent difference...

    I opened it 2 years ago on Monday. Fed it almost every month with 200 with a few lump sums as and when regular savings accounts matured with nothing to spend that on.

    Paid in a total of 12863 after fees, it is worth as I type 12,827, an overall loss of 36.

    However that doesn't tell the full story. Even though I made a loss the very first 500 I opened it with has made 8% overall to date in 2 years, almost three times what it would have sat in my Santander account. Overall:

    Payment 1 500 8% up
    Payment 2 100 8% up
    Payment 3 100 6% up
    Payement 4 100 4% up
    Payment 5 200 4.6% up
    Payment 6 2000, 5.6% up
    and so on and so on.....

    However its been going the other way with what I've paid in some of 2018 including a 1.8% drop on the 2500 lump sum I paid in in May. I'm not worried though because over the 9 years the fund has existed the overall gains are 90% and I'm not going to be touching the money for 15/20 years. BUT as the lump sum which has lost money came from a regular saver account that paid 5% I've not actually lost out on that either as the interest it earned in the regular saver account has covered the losses it has made in the S&S ISA.
    Last edited by Tarambor; 12-01-2019 at 5:47 PM.
    • redpete
    • By redpete 12th Jan 19, 6:25 PM
    • 4,318 Posts
    • 3,826 Thanks
    redpete
    What would be interesting to know is if there are people who have passively invested in low cost global trackers/index funds for 10+ years and have made a loss. Or even more so for 20+ years

    I completely understanding of the risk in the markets and the dips but my understanding is long term they should beat cash ISAs and the like. Were I to check my investment in 10-15 years or so and see I had less than what I had put in - I think I would be disapppointed
    Originally posted by redlfc
    Individual experience from a tiny sample size will be no help whatsoever in you deciding whether to invest.

    Better to get monthly values of an index into a spreadsheet and play with the numbers to see,, for example, the 10 year performance of 1000 invested each month.
    loose does not rhyme with choose but lose does and is the word you meant to write.
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