Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

Martyn1981 · 19 April 2018 at 5:49PM

Interesting news, the planned Coire Glas pumped storage hydro-electric project, is suggesting a change to its power capacity from 600MW to 1,500MW so that it can do more when needed.

This would reduce it's potential from 50hrs to 20hrs, but that makes a lot of sense.

Also, at 30GWh it would be a huge storage resource, and 6% of the theoretical 500GWh of storage that the UK would need in a 100% RE scenario. [100% assuming the 13% from gas is actually supplied by bio-gas.]

Planned change to Scotland's biggest hydro project

SSE has sought permission to increase the generating capacity of its planned Coire Glas pumped storage hydro-electric project.

The energy company was granted permission for a 600MW-capacity scheme in 2013 and has now sought approval to increase it to 1,500MW.

The Scottish government has been asked to approve the change to the proposal at site near Spean Bridge in Lochaber.

It would be the largest capacity hydro project to be built in Scotland.

The project would also be the first new pumped storage scheme to be developed in Britain since 1974, when work began at the Dinorwig scheme in Wales.

One million homes
SSE said Coire Glas would have a storage capacity of up to 30 gigawatt hours (GWh), more than doubling the existing pumped storage capacity of the UK which is currently 24GWh.

The company said the 30GWh was in relation to the size of the scheme's reservoir and the amount of water this can store.

Exiled_Tyke · 19 April 2018 at 6:33PM

GreatApe wrote: »

Yes I was wrong about the grid cost I thought it was 10p turns out it was 30p/d
But does that in any way fundamentally change the argument I was making (which wasn't even to you but to generali the Australian poster iirc) that the grid is cheap and reliable and we won't be disconnecting from it. If I recall the argument I was arguing against was the idea that people will install solar and disconnect from the grid and as people do that the grid will get more expensive for those left so more would disconnected etc etc. I pointed out that was a silly idea because 50+ million additional buildings are connecting to the grid its not nowhere near negative numbers its 50+ million positive numbers and that's because the grid is cheap reliable and works very well.

And yes I agree with you that local solar is better than central solar simply because as transport and heating is eletified it will mean presidential usage night go from 3MWh to 10MWh per property. Rooftop solar could mean less of a need to upgrade last mile grid infrastructure also lower losses if consumed nearby. But rooftops it won't be enough most roofs can't produce 10MWh and apartments have less roof per property so most of the power will still need to be imported probably mostly from offshore wind

And once again you have no idea what the volume of production will be so how can you claim it won't impact prices? Nobody knows at this stage. But what is reasonably safe to deduce is that productive shale deposits can't be unique to north America. Every continent has conventional oil gas and coal and every continent will have productive shales. Maybe the UK has a large productive basin maybe it doesn't but there is more good to be had than harm in finding out.

OK Apologies for going off topic. Now I've had a bit more time to reflect and review what's going on here, I have to say I'm worried. I know I keep going on about the purpose of these boards and this thread in particular, but that's what I believe and I for one am fed up of discussions being dragged into defending RE and related issues. I was concerned that there appears to be a number of new players bringing up these arguments after others have disappeared and some of the posts above suggesting all might not be what they seem. So I've done some research and careful reading and I've come up short.

So why bring up this post? Because this quote has got me wondering. The post is a reply to a previous post from Martyn where he says:

'You will recall the pro-coal arguments from a year or so back, and of course the constant claims that I don't know what I'm talking about that went on for months when I said that grid supply costs were 30p per day not 10p as he claimed.'

GreatApe responds as you can see above. 'Yes I wrong about the grid cost...'

But here's my issue. I can't find any reference to GreatApe discussing this previously. I'll be happily corrected if I'm wrong.

So when did you say this GreatApe? Or perhaps a better question would be put to Martyn :Who did you call out on grid costs, and for which GreatApe is now accepting responsibility for?

Former_MSE_Andrea · 20 April 2018 at 1:00PM

^^^^

See that line above. That's the line we're drawing under all previous disagreements.

:hello::hello:

This ^^^ is the slate being wiped clean

:kisses:

And that ^^^ is everyone kissing and making up :cool:

From this point onwards this discussion is going back to the original topic - about Green Energy in the News. If you want to discuss why you feel Green energy isn't all it's cracked up to be please do it in the new thread "Green energies vs other energies" that one of you is about to start on this board

Please stick to the appropriate threads but at all times, on all threads please remember all opinions are different, it's what makes us individual, what makes healthy debate great. No-one should be taking sideswipes at anyone because they have a different opinion. Take that step back. If you find you're about to say something that isn't nice just don't post please. If someone posts in a way you feel breaks our rules, report the post, add that person to your ignore list and leave it for us to take a look.

Thank you!

Martyn1981 · 21 April 2018 at 7:36AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Just to say that coal is back. Did anyone notice it was gone?

It's now generating 0.3GW, but the UK no-coal record of 40hrs 40mins was beaten this week with a no-coal period of 54hrs 50mins.

Great news.

There's more!

Great Britain Goes 55 Hours Without Using Coal

Martyn1981 · 21 April 2018 at 7:40AM

So, what should the UK / UK government do?

What steps can the UK take to reach net zero emissions by 2050?

The government has pledged to review its long-term climate targets. Renewable energy, housing and and transport are just some areas where new policies could cut emissions fast

More wind farms, solar power and electric cars: these are likely to be the future of the UK, under government plans announced this week to seek a zero-carbon economy in the next 30 years.

Some of the less obvious effects could be just as transformative, however, involving innovations such as smart houses and smart roads, widespread changes to the countryside wrought by new tree-planting and new farming practices designed to conserve soils.

There may need to be restrictions, too – in air travel, private transport, new building construction and our food and waste habits.

Who'd have thunk!

Martyn1981 · 23 April 2018 at 8:08AM

Looks like we'll be able to add Belgium to the growing list of European countries expecting subsidy free off-shore wind generation in the short to medium term.

If we include the carbon cost then we should see wind undercutting gas generation and continuing to reduce its share of leccy generation.

This item is from Chris Goodall's weekly carbon commentary.

7, Belgian offshore wind. Belgium said it expected new offshore wind to be built with zero subsidy and targeted 4 GW by 2030, up from less than 1 GW today. A 2017 auction saw a guaranteed price of €79 per megawatt hour, but recent bids around the North Sea have seen much lower prices and Belgium expects to be able to achieve prices below €50. As with the Netherlands, Belgium covers the costs of grid connection centrally and has installed an offshore hub to which wind farms can connect. This is the right model for offshore; the infrastructure should be built by a central authority that allows electricity suppliers to plug in. (The UK does things differently, obliging wind farms to each create their own connection to the shore). A rational European policy for offshore wind would go further than Belgium’s approach, and build new islands in the North Sea that allowed power to move from country to country.

silverwhistle · 23 April 2018 at 7:49PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

If we include the carbon cost then we should see wind undercutting gas generation and continuing to reduce its share of leccy generation.

In other news of our lack of a government with any coherent plan for anything, I note that the Midland mainline electrification scheme has been knocked on the head by our wonderful transport secretary Chris Grayling by, inter alia, taking carbon savings out of the cost benefit analysis. There's more to this depressing story of lack of investment, foresight, environmental concern, longer term running costs (bi-mode trains, I ask you!)...

Martyn1981 · 24 April 2018 at 12:40PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

There's more!

Great Britain Goes 55 Hours Without Using Coal

And even more.

The 55hr record didn't last long, we are now in a 72hr+ period.

UK runs without coal power for three days in a row

National Grid has forecast electricity demand this summer will be lower than last year, with minimum demand at 17GW and peak at 33.7GW. Demand on Tuesday is expected to peak at about 35GW.

Experts said to expect more milestones this year. “Ever rising renewable capacity in the UK will see these records fall more and more frequently, clearly showing progress made over the past decade or two,” said Jonathan Marshall, an analyst at the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit.

However, one observer cautioned that the shift away from coal could be a “false dawn” if it was just replaced by gas.

Andrew Crossland, who tracks electricity generation on the MyGridGB site, said: “Shifting to gas is likely to make our electricity market more volatile as our energy price becomes increasingly locked to international gas markets. That will only hurt consumers.”

A carbon tax, the cheaper price of gas and the rise of renewables have all hit coal operators. The government has set a deadline of October 2025 for phasing out coal entirely.

It's been fun watching the percentage of generation from coal dropping fast the last few years (and of course the sum of FF's), now it's time to see the gas percentage come down as more RE is deployed.*

*Though the rollout of EV's may benefit gas for a while if the switch to leccy is faster than the deployment of RE. Fun to watch.

silverwhistle · 24 April 2018 at 3:37PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

now it's time to see the gas percentage come down as more RE is deployed.*

Absolutely. And given the current reliance on gas you'd think we'd have better storage available. We don't even seem to have tactical storage let alone a strategic reserve.

It's a miserable wet and windy day here on the south coast (but have still got a hot tank of water from my PV) but I notice the Rampion field, which I first became aware of during a dirty weekend in Brighton a year and a bit ago, now has all its turbines operational.

From memory I believe it has 3.25/3.5MW turbines and can power half of Sussex. Imagine if it had the newer 6/8/10MW turbines! It's this incremental progress which most people don't even notice that is so important.

Martyn1981 · 24 April 2018 at 3:45PM

silverwhistle wrote: »

Absolutely. And given the current reliance on gas you'd think we'd have better storage available. We don't even seem to have tactical storage let alone a strategic reserve.

It's a miserable wet and windy day here on the south coast (but have still got a hot tank of water from my PV) but I notice the Rampion field, which I first became aware of during a dirty weekend in Brighton a year and a bit ago, now has all its turbines operational.

From memory I believe it has 3.25/3.5MW turbines and can power half of Sussex. Imagine if it had the newer 6/8/10MW turbines! It's this incremental progress which most people don't even notice that is so important.

Yep, Rampion started delivering power late Nov. It has 3.45MW WT's, changed from 7MW due to planning issues and a total farm reduction from 700MW to 400MW.

VIDEO: Rampion wind farm is completed

Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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