Could you live without cash?

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  • usefulmale
    usefulmale Posts: 2,627 Forumite
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    onomatopoeia99 wrote: »
    So who, apart from my bank and the recipients of the payments, can see which charities I support by direct debit at present? There is no cash involved now, a cashless society would not change this.

    I am absolutely certain that my insurer (Direct Line) and my employer cannot. However, I'm prepared to bet real money, say £10 to the charity of your choice, if you can provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt that an insurer or my employer has access to the history of charitable donations on my bank account.

    Nobody is saying that the transactions are visible right now. However, you can be sure that the records are kept right now though.

    All it would take after the demise of cash is a change to bank account T&C's to allow anyone prepared to pay for access to those records. Just like they do when they shovel off the data to Experian etc.

    What exactly will you do about it then?
  • borkid
    borkid Posts: 2,475 Forumite
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    ringo_24601 wrote: »
    You can make payments FROM your phone without a signal. Like I said, I'd expect a 'wallet' of cash stored on your phone - maybe in a digital currency like bitcoin.

    I've seen credit cards with buttons and displays - maybe the tech could be shrunk so small you won't even need a phone - just your card.


    I didn't realise that. What happens is the info is stored until a signal is obtained?

    I'd not be happy with that though if anything went wrong imagine trying to claim the money back. I quite happily pay my window cleaner via BACS and happy to have money paid to me that way. CC OK but not contactless. I've had instances in the past where the wrong amount has been entered and I've noticed mainly because it takes a little time to enter the pin. I'm sure some people don't pay enough attention when using contactless cards.

    If at some time in the future we went to a completely cashless society then I suppose I'd have to adapt if there was an automatic refund incases of a mistakes then I might be happier but I guess the banks will always have the final say.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
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    borkid wrote: »
    I didn't realise that. What happens is the info is stored until a signal is obtained?

    I'd not be happy with that though if anything went wrong imagine trying to claim the money back. I quite happily pay my window cleaner via BACS and happy to have money paid to me that way. CC OK but not contactless. I've had instances in the past where the wrong amount has been entered and I've noticed mainly because it takes a little time to enter the pin. I'm sure some people don't pay enough attention when using contactless cards.

    If at some time in the future we went to a completely cashless society then I suppose I'd have to adapt if there was an automatic refund incases of a mistakes then I might be happier but I guess the banks will always have the final say.

    It works just like how a credit/debit card works without a signal - it holds details of the card and the retailer instructs the bank to do the work. The app (in my case Android pay) holds details of the 'mobile bank card' ID.

    There's no need for a signal from the phone other than to the card reader.
  • borkid
    borkid Posts: 2,475 Forumite
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    ringo_24601 wrote: »
    It works just like how a credit/debit card works without a signal - it holds details of the card and the retailer instructs the bank to do the work. The app (in my case Android pay) holds details of the 'mobile bank card' ID.

    There's no need for a signal from the phone other than to the card reader.
    At some point though the details from the phone has to be sent to the bank presumably when a signal is received. Ofcourse it could be connect4ed via wifi to the sellers phone.
  • onomatopoeia99
    onomatopoeia99 Posts: 6,970 Forumite
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    usefulmale wrote: »
    Nobody is saying that the transactions are visible right now. However, you can be sure that the records are kept right now though.

    All it would take after the demise of cash is a change to bank account T&C's to allow anyone prepared to pay for access to those records. Just like they do when they shovel off the data to Experian etc.

    What exactly will you do about it then?
    Records are inevitably kept, because without a record of transactions on my account, there would be no bank statements or online banking.

    My credit report has no information about charitable donations on it from the information that Experian have, no matter what the bank have shoveled at them. If I had any defaults, I woud expect it to contain them, but I don't.

    If my bank starts selling my transaction history, I will move bank. They won't all start, because there will be a market for people that don't want this information sold and organisations will step in to supply to that market.

    I can see you're concerned about privacy. What will you start doing when your ISP allows GCHQ to monitor all of your communications? Or blocks certain websites from a list created by an unaccountable body, in a way that you cannot override or even see? Most of them already do at least one of those things ...
    Proud member of the wokerati, though I don't eat tofu.Home is where my books are.Solar PV 5.2kWp system, SE facing, >1% shading, installed March 2019.Mortgage free July 2023
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 46,089 Forumite
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    ringo_24601 wrote: »
    You can make payments FROM your phone without a signal.
    Great, apart from the sizeable number of people walking around either completely without a mobile device of any kind, or with a non-smart mobile, or with an allegedly smart mobile which crashes if you try to load or use any app without first deleting one of the others ...

    Mind you, I have wondered how card payments on planes work in this wireless age ... never having been on a plane which had wifi!
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  • phillw
    phillw Posts: 5,595 Forumite
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    edited 14 September 2017 at 11:17PM
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    Ganga wrote: »
    The Queen seems to manage ( never seen her put her hand in her purse )

    She has people to do that for her. But the Queen does a lot of things you've never seen her do.
    Savvy_Sue wrote: »
    Mind you, I have wondered how card payments on planes work in this wireless age ... never having been on a plane which had wifi!

    When the airlines can figure out how to make money out of it then magically it becomes safe. Some air planes have had micro cells added, so they can charge you £10 a minute.
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 46,089 Forumite
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    BTW, tonight another shop with a sign up saying "sorry, cash only today, line fault". So that's the cinema, the local Coop, a discount bookshop - all within the space of a week. And scattered across a sizeable city.
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  • Out,_Vile_Jelly
    Out,_Vile_Jelly Posts: 4,842 Forumite
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    zagfles wrote: »
    Oh dear, I've just purchased a large amount of booze for a party. I paid by card. Will my employer find out and think I have a booze problem?

    In future it is entirely possible that companies will be allowed access to your purchase history. It will be sold to you as "allowing companies to provide personalised product specification tailored to your individual needs". You'll be told that you shouldn't be worried about employers looking at it if you've nothing to hide.
    zagfles wrote: »
    Err...use a card? We're talking "cashless", not "cardless". So stick a spare card where you stick the spare note.

    A £20 note can be folded up and tucked into a shoe; I have done this on many occasion when going out wearing just a dress with a small handbag. You can only store a card somewhere flat and where it won't get scratched. If I drunkenly lose my spare £20 note, that's annoying, but no big deal. If I lose a bank card I have to cancel it and arrange a replacement, and potentially risk fraudulent spending.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
  • zagfles
    zagfles Posts: 20,351 Forumite
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    Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »
    In future it is entirely possible that companies will be allowed access to your purchase history. It will be sold to you as "allowing companies to provide personalised product specification tailored to your individual needs". You'll be told that you shouldn't be worried about employers looking at it if you've nothing to hide.
    "Sold to you" implies a choice. So anyone paranoid about this has a choice.
    A £20 note can be folded up and tucked into a shoe; I have done this on many occasion when going out wearing just a dress with a small handbag. You can only store a card somewhere flat and where it won't get scratched. If I drunkenly lose my spare £20 note, that's annoying, but no big deal. If I lose a bank card I have to cancel it and arrange a replacement, and potentially risk fraudulent spending.
    You lose a £20 note, you lose £20. Lose a card and you lose nothing, the bank takes the hit for any fraud unless you did something grossly negligent like write your PIN number on the card.
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