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Management pack - First I've heard of it?

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  • aMuseMe
    aMuseMe Posts: 10 Forumite
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    I got in touch with Persimmon and Greenbelt about the potential for a similar charge being made in the event we sell our new house on; the response was swift - there's nothing written down regarding the specific amount that will be charged within the contracts/current homeowners pack/TP1, but there will always be a charge - approx £195 incl. VAT which would tie in with the capped price indicated in your enquiries.

    I'm keeping the email trail alongside the rest of the documentation for future reference, I'll be interested to see how your journey progresses...

    Happy Friday folks!:beer:
  • futuresbright
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    OK, you've got an "estate rentcharge". That's exactly what I had on my last house. (Well, almost exactly - we had a residents' association in the form of a charitable trust instead of a management company, but that's unimportant.)

    Let me explain how it works - and having thrown away my paperwork relating to that house, I just paid £3 to the Land Registry to remind myself, I hope you're grateful :D

    - While they owned the land, the builders gave themselves a Grant of Estate Rentcharge, which basically says that the owner of the rentcharge has to do things (maintain the estate), and is allowed to collect money from the grantor of the rentcharge in return. The "Part 11" you've got is almost certainly a piece of the Deed of Grant of Estate Rentcharge that set this up - the section that details the obligations of the rentcharge owner.

    Here's an example I found of such a deed: http://eiv.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Rentcharge.pdf

    - They would also have noted this in the Charges Register on the title.

    - They added a restriction to the proprietorship register that says that the title can't be transferred without their consent.

    - Then they created a deed of covenant, or deed of transfer, that the buyer has to sign on purchasing the property. It basically commits the buyer to taking over as the "grantor" of the rentcharge (and therefore paying it), and also commits the buyer not to sell the property without making the subsequent buyer do exactly the same thing.

    To give you an example, my title contained this in the Property Register:



    And it had this in the Proprietorship Register:



    And finally, it had this in the Charges Register:



    The deed of transfer said this:



    Dig out your files from when you bought the place. What did your solicitor get you to sign? I expect it included such a deed (which $$$$$$$ refers to as the "transfer deed"). Assuming your builder's system wasn't materially different to mine, then:
    - the deed of transfer compels you to pay the service charge ("rentcharge")
    - I suspect that there probably ISN'T anything in writing saying that you have to buy the management pack for £X, but there IS something in writing saying you can't sell the house without the management company's consent, and they won't give their consent unless you pay them! (They've got a little bit of work to do because they need to warrant to the buyer's solicitor that you're up to date with the rentcharge and they won't be inheriting any arrears, and they have to sort out a new deed of transfer with the buyer.)

    If you genuinely believe you signed no such deed, hop over to the Land Registry, pay £3 and have a look at your title register.

    Thankyou for the very detailed reply and spending your hard earned helping me understand all this :T

    I have the "transfer deed" as to be expected and as you point out the covering word is "rent charge" which in my opinion they are hiding behind as they have not told anyone of these fees.

    I find it suspicious that the management company have now lowered their pack price to £200 and the house builder have started making new buyers aware of these fees in a more transparent way, they know it's wrong and excessive but have got away with it without anyone questioning it for some time.

    How come a 2nd occupant gets a management pack so they can understand what services they are paying for but the original buyer gets nothing but a word in their deeds which allows a company to charge what they want?
  • futuresbright
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    aMuseMe wrote: »
    I got in touch with Persimmon and Greenbelt about the potential for a similar charge being made in the event we sell our new house on; the response was swift - there's nothing written down regarding the specific amount that will be charged within the contracts/current homeowners pack/TP1, but there will always be a charge - approx £195 incl. VAT which would tie in with the capped price indicated in your enquiries.

    I'm keeping the email trail alongside the rest of the documentation for future reference, I'll be interested to see how your journey progresses...

    Happy Friday folks!:beer:

    I wonder if you had asked the same question a couple of weeks ago you would have got such a swift reply?

    Good luck with your purchase, all I would say is document everything, ask endless questions if you are not sure and get their answers signed for, their salespeople seem to brilliant at telling you what you want to hear whether it's true or not just to buy time so you purchase then you take their word for it and before you know it time has passed by and when you go back to them they deny all knowledge.
  • aMuseMe
    aMuseMe Posts: 10 Forumite
    edited 8 September 2017 at 6:49PM
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    I wonder if you had asked the same question a couple of weeks ago you would have got such a swift reply?

    Good luck with your purchase, all I would say is document everything, ask endless questions if you are not sure and get their answers signed for, their salespeople seem to brilliant at telling you what you want to hear whether it's true or not just to buy time so you purchase then you take their word for it and before you know it time has passed by and when you go back to them they deny all knowledge.

    Yeah - I've managed to get them to remove clauses from the 'standard' contract, and hammered their legal department enough to ensure there's as much transparency and a solid audit trail. The sales staff are awfully pushy, abrupt, and at times, just outright liars. My next mission is to cross reference the solar panels - there's no rental/lease on them (as per the scandal from previous years), however there seems to be some dispute over how much of the electricity generated is yours and how much goes back to the company that 'activate' them...

    It pays to be a pain in the a**e sometimes :rotfl:

    And thank you for the well wishes - we're just waiting for our mortgage offer to come through from Kensington - but that is a whole other thread!
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