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S17
Posts: 10 Forumite
Hi everyone,
We recently found a property that we like, it's a recent built think from 2007 and so it's newish. Now the thing is a couple of the other properties around that same area that are on leasehold, but this was not mentioned in the listing when we viewed this property.
When we asked the estate agent, he was not sure which one it was and said that he will cross-check this with the owner.
As it was the weekend he called us back yesterday and confirmed that it was freehold after speaking and checking with the owner.
Now the thing is in between us waiting for him to get back we decided to check- Hm Land Registry and it says freehold and leasehold on it and asked us to pay £3 for summery which we registered and did.
Please see the photo attached. The freehold seems to be on the builder/developer of the property will that have changed if the owner has gained control of the freehold?
Also what happens if we put an offer in assuming the seller is right then down the line we find out its leasehold do we lose money with our conveyancer and search charges?
Should we ask the agent to show proof of this or anything we need to do to back us up?
P.s Forum not allowing me to add photos or share google drive image link
We recently found a property that we like, it's a recent built think from 2007 and so it's newish. Now the thing is a couple of the other properties around that same area that are on leasehold, but this was not mentioned in the listing when we viewed this property.
When we asked the estate agent, he was not sure which one it was and said that he will cross-check this with the owner.
As it was the weekend he called us back yesterday and confirmed that it was freehold after speaking and checking with the owner.
Now the thing is in between us waiting for him to get back we decided to check- Hm Land Registry and it says freehold and leasehold on it and asked us to pay £3 for summery which we registered and did.
Please see the photo attached. The freehold seems to be on the builder/developer of the property will that have changed if the owner has gained control of the freehold?
Also what happens if we put an offer in assuming the seller is right then down the line we find out its leasehold do we lose money with our conveyancer and search charges?
Should we ask the agent to show proof of this or anything we need to do to back us up?
P.s Forum not allowing me to add photos or share google drive image link
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Comments
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If you are worried about it you can use a no sale no fee conveyancer and ask them to delay ordering searches until you have done basic title checks0
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Did you buy both the freehold and leasehold titles? If so you will know who owns what and you can confront the agent with that information.0
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If the title register of the freehold for a 2007 built house has the developer's name on it, then they are the freeholder and the seller you are buying it from is the leaseholder.
EAs are (often) known to not know what they are talking about and/or make up or embellish facts so take what they say with a pinch of salt. Ask the EA to confirm this in writing (I'm pretty sure they won't).Please see the photo attached. The freehold seems to be on the builder/developer of the property will that have changed if the owner has gained control of the freehold?
Also what happens if we put an offer in assuming the seller is right then down the line we find out its leasehold do we lose money with our conveyancer and search charges?
Should we ask the agent to show proof of this or anything we need to do to back us up?
P.s Forum not allowing me to add photos or share google drive image link0 -
I assume this is in England/Wales and is a house rather than a flat - buying the freehold of just the flat you occupy instantly reduces its value as it becomes virtually unmortgageable.
Just tell the EA you've checked at the Land Registry and the seller only has a leasehold. You'll walk away unless EA produces LR entries showing seller owns the freehold.
(I assume as it a recent development and therefore there is substantial ground rent and a lease for say 125 years and therefore a fairly high price to pay to buy the freehold.)RICHARD WEBSTER
As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.0 -
What happens if you pick a building society that operates both north and south of the border (like Nationwide, Yorskhire, Leeds, Skipton, plus all the big banks like RBS, HBOS etc.)
They must have to deal with freehold flats all the time and have tons of experience of offering mortgages for them.
Completely different systems of land tenure and considerations north and south of the border. Scots law doesn't have a fundamental problem with freehold titles stacked on top of each other, but my understanding is that English law does, hence the use of leasehold as a workaround.0 -
This may well be what is known as "fleecehold". It can be called a freehold but is not a true freehold (free from hold). Especially if it is on a new build estate (though not confined just to new builds), you may be bound by estate service charges (unregulated) and permission fees.
If you google leasehold houses you will see that there are many issues regarding these.
It is not uncommon with these houses to have two titles - one freehold and one leasehold for the same property. If you have a "fleecehold" property you have very little rights or protection.
Google fleecehold and/or join the excellent National Leasehold Campaign on Facebook. NLC are fantastic and will answer your queries. Above all, make sure you use a solicitor who is very experienced with these types of leases.0 -
Hi thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Sorry to mention it's a house and not a flat and it's in England.
We went to do a 2nd viewing today and showed the estate agent the leasehold summary from land registry. He said he double checked with the vendor before he came over. And it was freehold he confirmed and he thinks its probably not been registered when he bought the freehold. Is there something like that?
He said you can put an offer subject to it being freehold. Thinking of doing this tomorrow hopefully its what he says. Thanks0 -
Have you bought the leasehold Title?
If not, why not?
If yes, who is the registered owner?
The sellers either own one or the other (or neither and you're being scammed!), but if the developer owns the freehold that narrows it down.
It would also be interesting to know exactly what freehold the developer owns - is it just the house in question, or does the freehold Title include more of, or all of, the land that was developed in 2007?0 -
Hi I checked the lease his on 999 years lease from 2007. But his claiming there is no ground rent or anything and it's a virtual freehold? Anyone heard of that?0
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A "Virtual Freehold" is a layman term not a legal term, typically used for leases that are hundreds of years long (as opposed to 99, 125, etc). The ground rent should be at a 'peppercorn' (virtually insignificant) rate.
In effect, it might just be as good as a freehold but that depends on the wording in the lease.Hi I checked the lease his on 999 years lease from 2007. But his claiming there is no ground rent or anything and it's a virtual freehold? Anyone heard of that?0
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