Structural work on home before purchase (or not)
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livetoclimb
Posts: 52 Forumite
Hi all,
Apologies if this thread is in the wrong place - admins, please feel free to move if necessary. I'll keep it as concise as I can.
My partner and I are first time buyers and have made an offer on a barn conversion, recently refurbished and currently tenanted by the builder who carried out the refurbishment. The property is perfect other than one issue - the living room and dining room are both too small. For info, the barn is one of three in a terrace, which until the recent work was one larger property. There is no chain.
We put in an offer of slightly below asking, with the addition of the rooms being knocked into one, and the window in the dining room being lengthened to become a second back door. This was agreed by the vendor as the builder is also a friend of his (currently building a new home just down the road) and we have been waiting a few weeks to get a mortgage (now offered!) and for the work to be carried out. The wall inbetween the rooms is concrete and therefore presumably structural.
Today I spoke to the EA, who has been speaking to the vendor to find out the current situation and it has transpired that as the property in its current state is backed by the Federation of Master Builders, no further work can be carried out until after completion. I have no real knowledge of what this means, other than that it is effectively an insurance policy against building defects in the first 10 years. I'm not sure on the specifics of why they are unable to do further structural work before completion.
We have been offered a post completion payment of £8000 to move in prior to work being carried out, to use to pay for the work ourselves, and possibly leave a little left over to account for the inconvenience.
The issues I have with this mainly surround the risk to ourselves, both financially and in terms of the work. I'm not sure how we would get the vendor to have a legal obligation to pay us the £8000 after completion - is this something that is written into the conditions or a contract of sale/purchase?
Were the work to have been carried out before we moved in (as originally agreed) we would move straight in without issue. Because we apparently now have to wait until completion before the work starts, we will have approximately 2 weeks of the disruption caused by building work. Not ideal when you're moving into your first home. Plus we have cats who'll probably be stressed enough with the move as it is.
Furthermore, we have no way of knowing the actual cost of work and there is of course a risk that £8000 would not cover it if the builders were to run into issues or face complications. We would of course get quotes beforehand, but this would need to be done closer to the time as currently have no real access. The EA told me that the builder who lives there now, who seems nice and appears to knows what he's doing (judging by his other work), would likely take the job on if asked, so as he knows the fabric of the property well, should be able to give a reasonably accurate estimate.
Instead of accepting the up front cash offer, is there perhaps a way of forming some sort of separate contract so that the vendor is obliged to pay the cost of the work, and agree a much smaller 'inconvenience' payment? Is this something our solicitor might be able to help with? She's been a bit useless so far.
Could the vendor perhaps contract the work to be carried out prior to completion in order that he is liable for the payment? Or would a change in ownership invalidate this?
As I said the house is great but we're sinking just about everything we have saved into the deposit, stamp duty and fees etc so if the work were to go over the £8000 we'd have a bit of a problem, and of course the original offer was to include the work as described.
Im pretty inexperienced when it comes to this sort of thing and I can't find anything similar so any advice is very useful.
Thanks in advance.
Apologies if this thread is in the wrong place - admins, please feel free to move if necessary. I'll keep it as concise as I can.
My partner and I are first time buyers and have made an offer on a barn conversion, recently refurbished and currently tenanted by the builder who carried out the refurbishment. The property is perfect other than one issue - the living room and dining room are both too small. For info, the barn is one of three in a terrace, which until the recent work was one larger property. There is no chain.
We put in an offer of slightly below asking, with the addition of the rooms being knocked into one, and the window in the dining room being lengthened to become a second back door. This was agreed by the vendor as the builder is also a friend of his (currently building a new home just down the road) and we have been waiting a few weeks to get a mortgage (now offered!) and for the work to be carried out. The wall inbetween the rooms is concrete and therefore presumably structural.
Today I spoke to the EA, who has been speaking to the vendor to find out the current situation and it has transpired that as the property in its current state is backed by the Federation of Master Builders, no further work can be carried out until after completion. I have no real knowledge of what this means, other than that it is effectively an insurance policy against building defects in the first 10 years. I'm not sure on the specifics of why they are unable to do further structural work before completion.
We have been offered a post completion payment of £8000 to move in prior to work being carried out, to use to pay for the work ourselves, and possibly leave a little left over to account for the inconvenience.
The issues I have with this mainly surround the risk to ourselves, both financially and in terms of the work. I'm not sure how we would get the vendor to have a legal obligation to pay us the £8000 after completion - is this something that is written into the conditions or a contract of sale/purchase?
Were the work to have been carried out before we moved in (as originally agreed) we would move straight in without issue. Because we apparently now have to wait until completion before the work starts, we will have approximately 2 weeks of the disruption caused by building work. Not ideal when you're moving into your first home. Plus we have cats who'll probably be stressed enough with the move as it is.
Furthermore, we have no way of knowing the actual cost of work and there is of course a risk that £8000 would not cover it if the builders were to run into issues or face complications. We would of course get quotes beforehand, but this would need to be done closer to the time as currently have no real access. The EA told me that the builder who lives there now, who seems nice and appears to knows what he's doing (judging by his other work), would likely take the job on if asked, so as he knows the fabric of the property well, should be able to give a reasonably accurate estimate.
Instead of accepting the up front cash offer, is there perhaps a way of forming some sort of separate contract so that the vendor is obliged to pay the cost of the work, and agree a much smaller 'inconvenience' payment? Is this something our solicitor might be able to help with? She's been a bit useless so far.
Could the vendor perhaps contract the work to be carried out prior to completion in order that he is liable for the payment? Or would a change in ownership invalidate this?
As I said the house is great but we're sinking just about everything we have saved into the deposit, stamp duty and fees etc so if the work were to go over the £8000 we'd have a bit of a problem, and of course the original offer was to include the work as described.
Im pretty inexperienced when it comes to this sort of thing and I can't find anything similar so any advice is very useful.
Thanks in advance.
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Comments
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You need to be speaking to your solicitor and that advice will cost.0
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Your solicitor seems a bit rubbish because you're asking weird stuff of them.
99.9% of people buy houses as they are. You start with odd requests and it all becomes complicated.
Knocking through walls doesn't affect the house value, so all the builder is doing is giving you £8,000 off because they're happy to lose it and don't want to touch the house again for your benefit when there's no contracts exchanged.
People don't punch holes in walls for buyers. Your request is highly unusual. It's your job to do it once you buy, not the vendors to do it for you.
Stressed cats, however stressed they are, are not a bartering tool. Neither is pregnancy, night working or just being generally stressed. It is stressful for everyone. Your job is being buyer, the vendor's is being a vendor. That's hard enough - don't complicate things. 2 weeks of a bit of hassle is nothing.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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If you haven't exchanged contracts yet, don't be surprised if the vendor decides you're too much trouble and withdraws from the transaction in the event another purchaser comes along.0
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This sounds like a headache; far better to pay for what the property is currently worth and then deal with any building work yourself.0
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shaymarriott wrote: »Hi all,
Apologies if this thread is in the wrong place - admins, please feel free to move if necessary. I'll keep it as concise as I can.
My partner and I are first time buyers and have made an offer on a barn conversion, recently refurbished and currently tenanted by the builder who carried out the refurbishment. The property is perfect other than one issue - the living room and dining room are both too small. For info, the barn is one of three in a terrace, which until the recent work was one larger property. There is no chain.
We put in an offer of slightly below asking, with the addition of the rooms being knocked into one, and the window in the dining room being lengthened to become a second back door. This was agreed by the vendor as the builder is also a friend of his (currently building a new home just down the road) and we have been waiting a few weeks to get a mortgage (now offered!) and for the work to be carried out. The wall inbetween the rooms is concrete and therefore presumably structural.
Today I spoke to the EA, who has been speaking to the vendor to find out the current situation and it has transpired that as the property in its current state is backed by the Federation of Master Builders, no further work can be carried out until after completion. I have no real knowledge of what this means, other than that it is effectively an insurance policy against building defects in the first 10 years. I'm not sure on the specifics of why they are unable to do further structural work before completion.
We have been offered a post completion payment of £8000 to move in prior to work being carried out, to use to pay for the work ourselves, and possibly leave a little left over to account for the inconvenience.
Sounds like a massive headache for the poor developer and poor builder who are grafting to earn a living and support their families. This is a business transaction.
To be plain the inconvenience is entirely of your own making. You viewed, and chose to offer on, a barn conversion complete with a structural wall. Not off-plan.
You may well have to declare this payment to your mortgage lender. They may deem it to be artificially inflating the purchase price.shaymarriott wrote: »The issues I have with this mainly surround the risk to ourselves, both financially and in terms of the work. I'm not sure how we would get the vendor to have a legal obligation to pay us the £8000 after completion - is this something that is written into the conditions or a contract of sale/purchase?
Were the work to have been carried out before we moved in (as originally agreed) we would move straight in without issue. Because we apparently now have to wait until completion before the work starts, we will have approximately 2 weeks of the disruption caused by building work. Not ideal when you're moving into your first home. Plus we have cats who'll probably be stressed enough with the move as it is.
Furthermore, we have no way of knowing the actual cost of work and there is of course a risk that £8000 would not cover it if the builders were to run into issues or face complications. We would of course get quotes beforehand, but this would need to be done closer to the time as currently have no real access. The EA told me that the builder who lives there now, who seems nice and appears to knows what he's doing (judging by his other work), would likely take the job on if asked, so as he knows the fabric of the property well, should be able to give a reasonably accurate estimate.
Instead of accepting the up front cash offer, is there perhaps a way of forming some sort of separate contract so that the vendor is obliged to pay the cost of the work, and agree a much smaller 'inconvenience' payment? Is this something our solicitor might be able to help with? She's been a bit useless so far.
Could the vendor perhaps contract the work to be carried out prior to completion in order that he is liable for the payment? Or would a change in ownership invalidate this?
As I said the house is great but we're sinking just about everything we have saved into the deposit, stamp duty and fees etc so if the work were to go over the £8000 we'd have a bit of a problem, and of course the original offer was to include the work as described.
Im pretty inexperienced when it comes to this sort of thing and I can't find anything similar so any advice is very useful.
Thanks in advance.
Your arrangement is irregular to say the least (bizarre). You sound like you trust the vendor's estate agent more than your poor solicitor.
You have completely lost any perspective. Borrowing money to buying a property is inherently stressful and inherently risky. You mitigate against that with thorough prior research, planning, organisation and deep breathing. Not by trying to pass the risk and the stress onto everyone else.
Either do not overstretch yourself to purchase a property you cannot yet afford, or just enjoy the fact that as FTBs you have found your perfect home. You need a 'rainy day fund' from day one equivalent to several months mortgage payments. Slum it and take the wall down in a year or two.
Put your poor furbabies into a cattery until you have moved, cleaned, decorated (if any) and started unpacking. It is utter madness to surround them in mayhem, doors slamming, people raising their voices, their entire routine, smellscape and territory gone. If you lose them within your boxes you will be beside yourself. If they toilet all over your showhome you will be beside yourself.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
If the £8,000 reduction is agreed it would often simply come off the price, so the headline price is reduced by £8,000. Lenders would need to be told and agree.
Occasionally it is dealt with by leaving the price unchanged and having a contractual term as to an "allowance" off the price, but this is not wholly satisfactory. The lender still usually needs to be told. SDLT is due on the "headline" price, so is higher than one might expect.0 -
This sounds like a headache; far better to pay for what the property is currently worth and then deal with any building work yourself.
It's not the property that's the headache!
The place has just been refurbished, and now they want the vendor to knock holes in it for them? [STRIKE]Insane[/STRIKE]....but they're FTBs, so I must be kind.
OK then, it's a mistake anyone could make, but it's never sensible to get the owner to make changes or do repairs prior to purchase. But hey, it's a negotiating tactic that's worked, to an extent.....
However, the fact that the vendor has entertained a reduction suggests people aren't exactly falling over themselves to buy this barn conversion. Knowing a few barnish complexes here in Ruralshire, that doesn't surprise me much. Two down the lane have been on the market for > 2 years.0 -
When the builder/vendor came up with the £8000 figure, they probably only took into account the cost of the works and did not take into account the cost of getting a new building warranty, making another application to Building Control and the legal costs to sort out the complex and unusual contractual arrangements - if they could find a solicitor to who would do what is being suggested in the first place.
As has been said' you are doing the whole process back to front. You either buy the house as it is and put up with the layout not being perfect with a hope of getting the holes knocked through at some time in the futurre, or you pay much much more than the £8000 to get this back to front contract sorted out.0 -
I think your expectations are entirely unreasonable. It's ridiculous to expect the seller to make changes to the house that you haven't even bought. If I were the seller I wouldn't want to make expensive changes that probably won't add equivalent value and may actually put other buyers off when the sale to you could well fall through.
You need to buy the house as is and then change it to suit you once you actually own it. By all means get a quote from the current tenant and either have the work done before you move in or once you've saved up. A layout you don't happen to like isn't something that can't be lived with, it's not as though half the roof is missing or something like that.Solar install June 2022, Bath
4.8 kW array, Growatt SPH5000 inverter, 2x Growatt ML33RTA batteries.
SSW roof. ~22° pitch, BISF house. 12 x 400W Hyundai panels0 -
Buy the property. Once you've completed, engage a builder to do the work that you want doing. Find somewhere to live during this period (Short-term rental? AirBNB? Stay with friends or family? Take a holiday?), then move in once the work is done.
The seller has no vested interest in doing this work to a high quality. They might cut corners or bodge things in a way that you won't notice until you've moved in and discover the problems some months later.
If you need to negotiate money off to do this, then attempt that. If you can't get a discount, you might need to look elsewhere.0
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